[mcoe]

That is the thing there were no hearing protection rules, they provided ear plugs but never enforced any rule, they said we had to have safety glasses but didn't have to wear them. The thing that got me was in high school we had to yell cover and count to 3 before we strike an arc to let everyone in or around our booth know we were striking an arc. At college, not a thing was said about that. I walked in to help someone in one booth and the person beside them lit up without warning. I went in to find the oxy/act bottles still on most the the time, the argon bottles left on. They were running 40 cfh through the mig welders and couldn't figure out why they were using so much gas, everything was in the flat position with no wind. Oxy acetylene was set incorrectly. I found the oxygen set to around 60 psi and the acetylene set to 15 psi. I had to decide between shutting it down or running like heck.I am just waiting for that place to get shut down.

[danielbuck]

“Those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym.”

― Woody Allen




I've found in general, this is more true than not (well, maybe not the Gym part, haha) I've not taken classes for metal working or anything, but in other areas I've taken classes. There are always some instructors who are absolutely great, they know their stuff, and they know how to teach it. Then there are always some who don't really know their stuff top notch, but they know it well enough to teach the basics, so it's not a complete loss when teaching newbies.

But then there's always a hand full that just flat out don't know their stuff, AND don't know how to teach. haha! Usually compounded by an ego

Just because someone has a police badge on doesn't mean he's honest, or really protecting and serving. And just because someone is an instructor, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about


make friends and ask questions of the instructors that DO know their stuff, and try to avoid the ones that don't. If you think your instructor doesn't know his stuff, then drop the class, and request to take the class again with a different instructor. You're paying for the education, might as well try to get the most out of it! If you can't drop the class, at least get some good seat time

[79jasper]

Well said. [THUMBS UP SIGN]

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[Drifta-X]

If it wasn't for this forum I would have had so much more of a hard time in my class.
As an example the way the teachers where grinding the tungstan.
I'm only a noob but we all know grind marks to go down the length, not against.
I managed to find it in my pocket book and showed them, they where like "oh I didn't know that"

[Superiorwelding]

If it wasn't for this forum I would have had so much more of a hard time in my class.
As an example the way the teachers where grinding the tungstan.
I'm only a noob but we all know grind marks to go down the length, not against.
I managed to find it in my pocket book and showed them, they where like "oh I didn't know that"

Wow!!
-Jonathan

[Otto Nobedder]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

I tried that in two different high schools and the teachers wouldn't do it - I think we all know why.
They also would not use textbooks nor the videos sitting right there on the shelf....
I even offered to give the URL for any pertinent weld they were learning.
I personally showed the teachers some of the videos - still no dice.

As a result, any student that showed interest I told them about this site and weldingweb.

I also sat in with kids when I had time and welded with them - a little "I do" then "you do" to help them along.

I'm still going to keep trying though.

[mcoe]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

I showed the parent site to my professor and he started watching Jody's videos and I will be student teaching at the high school level this fall and plan on using this site as much as possible and push my students to get involved.

[AKweldshop]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

I showed the parent site to my professor and he started watching Jody's videos and I will be student teaching at the high school level this fall and plan on using this site as much as possible and push my students to get involved.

[Drifta-X]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

U heard of the saying "trying to push shit uphill"
The path is up hill and this topic is good shit

[Boomer63]

As a welding edu-ma-kater ... eda-a-ma-kashun ... uhh ... a welding teacher, this is a sore subject for me. I have seen too many guys who are teaching a process and DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT! I mean .. WTF!!

But teaching someone to be a welder/metal fabricator is more than just processes and blue prints. It is learning familiarity with the equipment, lay out and fit up, and job professionalism, which is learning how to think, act and TALK like a journeyman.

I don't have a degree. I don't know they way an educated instructor would do it. Buy my crew (class) learns to weld in all positions. They learn to maintain their work space and keep the shop clean and orderly. They know the tools and metal working equipment, and are familiar with how to use these things. By the time they are done, they don't look like geeks running around in green jackets, they talk, think, move and act like WELDERS! Which is the goal! They learn what it takes to get hired and keep a job. What behavior is acceptable in the work place and what is not.

So who would you rather learn from? Take two instructors (assuming both can teach), one has 20+ years of experience in all types of work environments (manufacturing, fab shop and field construction), using multiple process on the job, but has no degree. The other guy has a nice four year degree. He can build the little box that is used in welding competitions in less than 45 minutes. He had a job playing welder at one company for five years. WHO do you want to learn from? Seriously! Just about any college boy will take the cat with the degree over the cat who doesn't have one. But again, as a student, who do you want to learn from?

[79jasper]

But the problem here is, what if the person with 20 years experience can't teach worth a chit?

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[Boomer63]

That sucks OUT LOUD, where everyone can hear the sucking sound.

A teacher that doesn't know the craft he's paid to teach? Damn. It would be my nature to shame him in public.

Does that make me an asshole?

No, it doesn't, but this happens all the time. I got into teaching after some work accidents; it was going to be a few years before I would be able to go back into the field to work. Here are some quotes I have picked from other "welding educators" over the few years I have been teaching:

"Wow, for that project you really had the students to it right!" (Because I don't teach the "half-assed method")
"They really don't need to know blue print reading, someone at the work place is always there to show them how to put it together". (Then how did that 'one guy' at the shop learn to read prints?)
"A welding shop is always messy, so I don't have the students pick up, sweep up or put things away". (I wonder where this guy works??)
"They don't learn anything from metal fab projects". (I guess knowing how to do fit up isn't important??)
"Professionalism is something they learn on the job - there is no way to teach it anyway" (Sort of like teaching shop safety??)
MY ALL TIME FAVORITE!!! ~
"Vertical UP! NO ONE does MIG vertical up!!" (Apparently they don't do vertical up at the trailer factory or the farm where this guy works)

[MinnesotaDave]

I think the ones I've heard are worse....

All below are high school welding shop teachers.

"I don't teach stick because everything is mig nowadays"
"I don't make them practice because they don't want to - I just let them make stuff." (With the mig improperly set)
"I don't know how to set up the mig."
"I don't know what rod to use."
"I don't know how many amps to tell them."
"I only teach flat because I'm not good at the other positions."
"I've never welded overhead."
"Last time I did a vertical weld was in college." (20+ years ago)
"I don't know what the difference between 6013 and 7018 is anyway."
"I know the numbers mean something, but I don't understand it." (Stick electrodes)
"I don't use the textbook because kids don't like to read."
"Is fluxcore even necessary to talk about?"
"It doesn't matter anyway - I've only got 6 years left until I retire." (What the f__k is wrong with people!!)

This is just the stuff off the top of my head....there's more....

[Superiorwelding]

I think the ones I've heard are worse....

All below are high school welding shop teachers.

"I don't teach stick because everything is mig nowadays"
"I don't make them practice because they don't want to - I just let them make stuff." (With the mig improperly set)
"I don't know how to set up the mig."
"I don't know what rod to use."
"I don't know how many amps to tell them."
"I only teach flat because I'm not good at the other positions."
"I've never welded overhead."
"Last time I did a vertical weld was in college." (20+ years ago)
"I don't know what the difference between 6013 and 7018 is anyway."
"I know the numbers mean something, but I don't understand it." (Stick electrodes)
"I don't use the textbook because kids don't like to read."
"Is fluxcore even necessary to talk about?"
"It doesn't matter anyway - I've only got 6 years left until I retire." (What the f__k is wrong with people!!)

This is just the stuff off the top of my head....there's more....

, that is all I can say.
-Jonathan

[mcoe]

Why are you shocked Jonathan, that is the way I teach just kidding. My students are begging me to let them weld but since I am not a dedicated welding class but an Ag class I have to cover everything.

[AKweldshop]

I think the ones I've heard are worse....

All below are high school welding shop teachers.

"I don't teach stick because everything is mig nowadays"
"I don't make them practice because they don't want to - I just let them make stuff." (With the mig improperly set)
"I don't know how to set up the mig."
"I don't know what rod to use."
"I don't know how many amps to tell them."
"I only teach flat because I'm not good at the other positions."
"I've never welded overhead."
"Last time I did a vertical weld was in college." (20+ years ago)
"I don't know what the difference between 6013 and 7018 is anyway."
"I know the numbers mean something, but I don't understand it." (Stick electrodes)
"I don't use the textbook because kids don't like to read."
"Is fluxcore even necessary to talk about?"
"It doesn't matter anyway - I've only got 6 years left until I retire." (What the f__k is wrong with people!!)

This is just the stuff off the top of my head....there's more....

That's bad man....
Now we wonder why there's so much bad weld bashing on WW....

[weldin mike 27]

I was told by a guy that his teacher told him that vert down isn't even a weld. (Mig I assume.)

Mick

[dsmabe]

People in general irritate me, too many just don't care to do things right, or even put forth effort!

[Boomer63]

Wow ... more horror stories! It is very clear that there are guys out there who shouldn't be teaching. Apparently a LOT of guys! I have students who come in and talk about how much welding they did in high school, and generally they didn't learn much. But every once awhile I get student who had a good instructor in high school.

But the problem isn't just confined to education, it is also in industry. Occasionally I will do a training for a company that needs to have their welders pass a certification test, and they need someone to bring their guys up to speed. I have seem some very poor practices in this area; but usually the problems revolve around poor gun/rod angles. But those guys in industry can get pissy and resentful - they call what they do 'work' or 'real' welding as opposed to 'school' welding.

So, what is the answer? Any ideas? Maybe the topic of 'what to do' needs another thread?