General welding questions that dont fit in TIG, MIG, Stick, or Certification etc.
Farmwelding
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Is there a way to calculate or figure out, other than high dollar equipment,what the actual temperature of your welding arc is. So if I am tigging at 20 amps it is obviously less heat than at 180 amps, but what is the difference. Since steel melts around 2500 degrees F II automatically know that it is greater than that, but curiosity has gotten the better of me and I had time to think about random stuff.
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Nick
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Here's some light reading for you since you must be way too bored :D

https://app.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_1976_08_s222.pdf
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Or maybe figure btu's from watts and use that in your concepts :)

1 watt = 3.412 btu/hr.

Welding at 200 amps, weld arc voltage 25 volts: (200)(25) = 5000 watts which equals 17,060 btu/hr.

None of that is likely actually helpful though :lol:
Dave J.

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PeteM
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MinnesotaDave wrote:Here's some light reading for you since you must be way too bored :D

https://app.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_1976_08_s222.pdf

I read a paper similar to that once. I only made it to pre-calc. though, so a paper written by a PhD. usually gets past me in the first couple of paragraphs. I hung in there till the Chebychev polynomials underwent the standard Abel transformation. I mean, synthetic division to find the slope of a rational function is one thing, but those guys with their own type of named after them are a breed apart. :ugeek:
Poland308
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The btu/watts formula will work but you will need to factor in heat loss from the arc to air depending on arc length as well as the materials you arcing to and from. Not to mention voltage fluctuations from the power company and voltage drop from the cord.
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Josh
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Poland308 wrote:The btu/watts formula will work but you will need to factor in heat loss from the arc to air depending on arc length as well as the materials you arcing to and from. Not to mention voltage fluctuations from the power company and voltage drop from the cord.
Or just tell him "hey kid, the arc is damned hot - don't touch it" :D :lol:
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Poland308
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What side do we tell him not to touch? The toungsten or the metal?
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
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If it's glowing then it's above 900deg f. To emit visssable light.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Farmwelding
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If I welded it two seconds ago don't touch it. I knew that. You now like 500-couple thousand degrees-no biggy. It's always fun when your buddy works at a fast food restraunt and says "I burnt myself yesterday" and then I ask them how hot is that and they reply like a couple hundred degrees- well i got you beat. Welding-the only job where you make the sun look small and cold.
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Nick
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PeteM wrote:
MinnesotaDave wrote:Here's some light reading for you since you must be way too bored :D

https://app.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_1976_08_s222.pdf

I read a paper similar to that once. I only made it to pre-calc. though, so a paper written by a PhD. usually gets past me in the first couple of paragraphs. I hung in there till the Chebychev polynomials underwent the standard Abel transformation. I mean, synthetic division to find the slope of a rational function is one thing, but those guys with their own type of named after them are a breed apart. :ugeek:
Honestly there isn't too much calculus there (relatively speaking) that a typical undergrad wouldn't be able to understand. What sets those papers apart is the level of physics involved. When I was in school, I didn't see much of Bessel Functions until Sophomore year when I took Mathematical Methods for Physicists. Then next semester Electromagnetic Field Theory and Thermodynamics, after which A LOT more things started making "sense". Yeap, I'm a nerd. :geek:

Ahhhh, the good ol' days. Sure do miss them.
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Farmwelding
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I'm in Ap calculus right now and hell I thought that was hard. I think you just have a lot of us an tiny aneurism. Good grief-how do you remember all of this. I can hardly remember how to do matrices-nope not at all.
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Nick
ryanjames170
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id say the dumbed down answer to the question is its less of a question of actual tempature and more of a question of the volume of heat.. IE small camp fire vs house fire... both are burning at about the same temp how ever you can get close to the campfire then the house fire.. and i say this because tungsten melts around 6200 and IIRC the welding arc is alot more then 2500 to start with.

how ever i could be wrong in this thinking..
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Farmwelding
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ryanjames170 wrote:id say the dumbed down answer to the question is its less of a question of actual tempature and more of a question of the volume of heat.. IE small camp fire vs house fire... both are burning at about the same temp how ever you can get close to the campfire then the house fire.. and i say this because tungsten melts around 6200 and IIRC the welding arc is alot more then 2500 to start with.

how ever i could be wrong in this thinking..
You know that kind of make sense. With our house fire analogy- my brother is a firefighter and they did a house burn and they left the antenna up next to the house or melted easily and collapsed. If you did that near a campfire, it would be hot and be soft but wouldn't melt and flex that easily. But a house also has shingles and other materials which burn hotter.
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Nick
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Hey oscar - Bessel was quite a while ago for me - 3rd semester calculus (or the end of 2nd)- right before Taylor and McLaurin Series :D

I enjoyed parts of calculus, found the rest interesting.
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Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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Farmwelding
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Wow this is comorting knowing what like 1/2 of that means.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
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PeteM
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Farmwelding wrote:I'm in Ap calculus right now and hell I thought that was hard. I think you just have a lot of us an tiny aneurism. Good grief-how do you remember all of this. I can hardly remember how to do matrices-nope not at all.

You don't need to remember it. You just need to remember where to find it.

Notice that these guys(and I) still have their books?
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MinnesotaDave wrote:Hey oscar - Bessel was quite a while ago for me - 3rd semester calculus (or the end of 2nd)- right before Taylor and McLaurin Series :D

I enjoyed parts of calculus, found the rest interesting.
My calculus teachers never really covered them because they didn't find any use in them. They did love Taylor/McLaurin series however. On the contrary, my physics professors said you can't live without them, as they appear in many natural phenomenon.
PeteM wrote:You don't need to remember it. You just need to remember where to find it.

Notice that these guys(and I) still have their books?
Exactly.
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Farmwelding
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PeteM wrote:
Farmwelding wrote:I'm in Ap calculus right now and hell I thought that was hard. I think you just have a lot of us an tiny aneurism. Good grief-how do you remember all of this. I can hardly remember how to do matrices-nope not at all.

You don't need to remember it. You just need to remember where to find it.

Notice that these guys(and I) still have their books?
What book? What are these things you call textbooks? And as far as I know i won't be needing to find the derivative of the square root of x to the power of 3 or integrating 3x-5 from 0 to 5 or solving dy/dx= square root of x-cosy when f(4)=pi when I weld. Maybe I wrong and one of you who know more math than I do will tell me other wise. Do you ever use this math ever while welding. Remember while welding-if you teach this math it doesn't count.
And I have never leaned that in calculus. Maybe it is the next year of calculus that I sure as hell ain't gonna take
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Nick
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Oscar wrote:
MinnesotaDave wrote:Hey oscar - Bessel was quite a while ago for me - 3rd semester calculus (or the end of 2nd)- right before Taylor and McLaurin Series :D

I enjoyed parts of calculus, found the rest interesting.
My calculus teachers never really covered them because they didn't find any use in them. They did love Taylor/McLaurin series however. On the contrary, my physics professors said you can't live without them, as they appear in many natural phenomenon.
Science, math, physics and shop teachers need to hang out for a beer more often :)
PeteM wrote:You don't need to remember it. You just need to remember where to find it.

Notice that these guys(and I) still have their books?
Exactly^2
Dave J.

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Farmwelding wrote:
PeteM wrote:
Farmwelding wrote:I'm in Ap calculus right now and hell I thought that was hard. I think you just have a lot of us an tiny aneurism. Good grief-how do you remember all of this. I can hardly remember how to do matrices-nope not at all.

You don't need to remember it. You just need to remember where to find it.

Notice that these guys(and I) still have their books?
What book? What are these things you call textbooks? And as far as I know i won't be needing to find the derivative of the square root of x to the power of 3 or integrating 3x-5 from 0 to 5 or solving dy/dx= square root of x-cosy when f(4)=pi when I weld. Maybe I wrong and one of you who know more math than I do will tell me other wise. Do you ever use this math ever while welding. Remember while welding-if you teach this math it doesn't count.
And I have never leaned that in calculus. Maybe it is the next year of calculus that I sure as hell ain't gonna take
Since you've decided that higher math couldn't possibly be of benefit - there is no reason to show you where it is used.
Saves a lot of time.
In my opinion.
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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PeteM
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Farmwelding wrote:
PeteM wrote:
Farmwelding wrote:I'm in Ap calculus right now and hell I thought that was hard. I think you just have a lot of us an tiny aneurism. Good grief-how do you remember all of this. I can hardly remember how to do matrices-nope not at all.

You don't need to remember it. You just need to remember where to find it.

Notice that these guys(and I) still have their books?
What book? What are these things you call textbooks? And as far as I know i won't be needing to find the derivative of the square root of x to the power of 3 or integrating 3x-5 from 0 to 5 or solving dy/dx= square root of x-cosy when f(4)=pi when I weld. Maybe I wrong and one of you who know more math than I do will tell me other wise. Do you ever use this math ever while welding. Remember while welding-if you teach this math it doesn't count.
And I have never leaned that in calculus. Maybe it is the next year of calculus that I sure as hell ain't gonna take
Well you got me there man. When welding I just go eeeeeeeeeeee (in cursive) and make sure that they're shiny.

Have a good one.
Farmwelding
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Not saying it isn't valuable it's just that I most likely won't be using it unless I go work for the AWS and write papers like you shared with us. Keep sharing i may as well use the math for something. Every knf once in awhile it may be useful :D
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
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Nick
PeteM
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Farmwelding wrote:Not saying it isn't valuable it's just that I most likely won't be using it unless I go work for the AWS and write papers like you shared with us. Keep sharing i may as well use the math for something. Every knf once in awhile it may be useful :D
Ok. That paper was written by a scientist at Bettis Nuclear Laboratory, which is right down the street from me. I've even worked with a few guys that have welded there and at places like Holtech (look them up.)

That work is no joke and they don't accept jokers. You need to prove that you have the smarts and are able to do the mental gymnastics required to understand the importance of the equipment that is being built. Aside from any number of absolutely pristine weld tests you need to complete you are also subject to a written exam. There's going to be some math on it. You better be able to do it, what ever it may be.
Poland308
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Can't figure a square root, then you won't be a pipe fitter.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Farmwelding
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Poland308 wrote:Can't figure a square root, then you won't be a pipe fitter.
Well I don't know dittily crap about about pipe except it's round a different world of everything so why is a square root so important. Something to do with fishmouthing per chance. I have been trying to figure out the math behind that playing with sin curves and manipulating the equation after taking a screenshot of the pipe fitters blue book cause I'm too cheap. Any thing on that too per chance.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
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Nick
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