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Layin' down the floor

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Layin' down the floor

Postby Olivero » Thu May 04, 2017 10:59 pm

I got a project coming up where I am laying down new flooring in a walk in fridge, Since its raw meat, fully welded seams are needed to prevent any chance in hell of that juice seeping under it where it can't be cleaned.

I am using 3/16" 3003 diamond plate, brite finished.

Flooring drawing.png
Flooring drawing.png (187.01 KiB) Viewed 146 times


The above is a space plan of it that I drew, the dotted lines are the seams of the sheets that have to be welded.

I cannot weld to the walls as they are galvalume so I had an idea which I tried on another job where I put pieces of 2" X 3" of aluminum 6061 angle or L brackets as they go by, to keep the floor down. I then weld those onto the floor and screw them into the walls of the fridge, then I start welding the bigger seams.

The outer seam towards the walls is siliconed so it has to be fixed in place in order to not break the seal which is where I made a mistake on another job by not using brackets to fix the floor.

One problem in particular that I have not been able to solve yet is how to seal the threshold to the floor, the concept is to have 100% sealed floor so nothing can seep under the plate in any way.

Here are some pictures of the floor when its messed up, it also shows how the threshold meets the inner flooring.

DSCN0148.jpg
DSCN0148.jpg (33.27 KiB) Viewed 146 times

DSCN0127.jpg
DSCN0127.jpg (33.34 KiB) Viewed 146 times

DSCN0124.jpg
DSCN0124.jpg (30.67 KiB) Viewed 146 times


I am having some 3003 diamond plate thresholds made that can be used but figuring out how to flush these to the concrete outside is going to be tricky but any ideas are appreciated on this.
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Otto Nobedder » Thu May 04, 2017 11:10 pm

I would seal the threshold to the floor with a high-grade epoxy, like 3-M's Hysol. A good scuffing with 80-grit to give it some tooth, of course.

Alternately, the threshold can be welded to the interior floor, and Hysol used to seal the concrete side and the seams where the threshold meets the frame and jamb.

Steve
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Olivero » Thu May 04, 2017 11:14 pm

Otto Nobedder wrote:I would seal the threshold to the floor with a high-grade epoxy, like 3-M's Hysol. A good scuffing with 80-grit to give it some tooth, of course.

Alternately, the threshold can be welded to the interior floor, and Hysol used to seal the concrete side and the seams where the threshold meets the frame and jamb.

Steve


Cool, never heard of that before.

I was thinking of welding the threshold to the inside like you said once it becomes aluminum but my biggest concern is how to flush it up outside, its not 22 gauge sheet anymore, its 3/16" thick and will definetley be a problem when rolling a rack of 500 or more lbs of meat into it. Going to meet with one of our concrete guys and see if he has any ideas, might just be worth it to grind out a 3/16" spot for that plate to come onto and then seal it with that epoxy. Is it waterproof?

I am guessing you have used it before?

I tried a product in the past, Fix Master Crack sealer by loctite I believe it was, maybe that's another option?
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Coldman » Thu May 04, 2017 11:22 pm

I've built plenty of in-line freezers and chilling systems over the years. Any type of sealant - silicon, epoxy etc is going to break under thermal expansion/contraction guaranteed,
The best way is to seal weld an angle toe up all round the perimeter as close to the walls as you can get to turn the floor into a pan. Then seal and screw a capping zed section to the wall and covering the the top edge of the angle to protect against wash down spray etc.
Remember the outer skin of a coldroom or freezer must be sealed to form a vapour barrier then you have the insulation material and then the inner skin. The inner skin walls and ceiling does not have to be perfectly sealed (and in fact if subject to thermal shock should not be sealed) so any moisture inside the two skins gets evaporated and removed as frost deposition on the cooling coils.
By making the floor a pan you keep falling or wash down water from entering the insulation area and also satisfying drying requirements of the insulation as well.
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Olivero » Thu May 04, 2017 11:27 pm

Coldman wrote:I've built plenty of in-line freezers and chilling systems over the years. Any type of sealant - silicon, epoxy etc is going to break under thermal expansion/contraction guaranteed,
The best way is to seal weld an angle toe up all round the perimeter as close to the walls as you can get to turn the floor into a pan. Then seal and screw a capping zed section to the wall and covering the the top edge of the angle to protect against wash down spray etc.
Remember the outer skin of a coldroom or freezer must be sealed to form a vapour barrier then you have the insulation material and then the inner skin. The inner skin walls and ceiling does not have to be perfectly sealed (and in fact if subject to thermal shock should not be sealed) so any moisture inside the two skins gets evaporated and removed as frost deposition on the cooling coils.
By making the floor a pan you keep falling or wash down water from entering the insulation area and also satisfying drying requirements of the insulation as well.


Interesting, the inside of the units should never be sprayed down and is instructed by Bally who makes them to not do that. Of course someone went ahead and did it anyways thinking it was similar to the HVAC guy defrosting the coil :roll:

I thought about doing this as well but... but...... well, I guess it really is the best way to do it.

I would weld the entire lip of the angle to the floor to keep it 100% sealed. Still doesen't solve the threshold problem or do you not consider that having a problem with thermal exp and contraction?
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Otto Nobedder » Thu May 04, 2017 11:34 pm

Olivero wrote:
Otto Nobedder wrote:I would seal the threshold to the floor with a high-grade epoxy, like 3-M's Hysol. A good scuffing with 80-grit to give it some tooth, of course.

Alternately, the threshold can be welded to the interior floor, and Hysol used to seal the concrete side and the seams where the threshold meets the frame and jamb.

Steve


Cool, never heard of that before.

I was thinking of welding the threshold to the inside like you said once it becomes aluminum but my biggest concern is how to flush it up outside, its not 22 gauge sheet anymore, its 3/16" thick and will definetley be a problem when rolling a rack of 500 or more lbs of meat into it. Going to meet with one of our concrete guys and see if he has any ideas, might just be worth it to grind out a 3/16" spot for that plate to come onto and then seal it with that epoxy. Is it waterproof?

I am guessing you have used it before?

I tried a product in the past, Fix Master Crack sealer by loctite I believe it was, maybe that's another option?


The Hysol is helium-tight in full vacuum service, so, yes, it's waterproof. It's also immune to most solvents and extreme cold. It's also paintable with anything, including the epoxy paints/surfacers likely to be used outside the walk-in.

I think Coldman's suggestion of making the floor a pan, versus clipping it to the wall, has great merit. The joint will still need caulked, but even a short vertical leg will add great rigidity to the edge of the floor reducing flexing and chances of tearing the caulk seal.

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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Olivero » Thu May 04, 2017 11:37 pm

wow, sounds pretty badass, I will have to look further into it.

Trying to get this one solved for good, hate reworking stuff, so embarrassing.

I think doing a full edge around is not a bad idea, fully weld the lower lip on the floor and seal the upper lip on the wall and it should keep that seam 100000% sealed permanently.... Man that sounds good.

Is this stuff like a caulk, gel or a liquid?
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Coldman » Thu May 04, 2017 11:37 pm

The ideal situation is to continue the pan through the threshold so no water can get underneath the floor at that joint and have a lip pointing down outside. If concrete is flush at this point, chase out a groove and bury the lip in it and fill the groove with concrete or some rapid cement repair. The pan will still expand and contract inside exposing a gap between pan and wall, a trim sealed and fixed to the wall and covering the top edge of the pan protects this exposed gap.
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Re: Layin' down the floor

Postby Olivero » Fri May 05, 2017 4:14 pm

Coldman wrote:The ideal situation is to continue the pan through the threshold so no water can get underneath the floor at that joint and have a lip pointing down outside. If concrete is flush at this point, chase out a groove and bury the lip in it and fill the groove with concrete or some rapid cement repair. The pan will still expand and contract inside exposing a gap between pan and wall, a trim sealed and fixed to the wall and covering the top edge of the pan protects this exposed gap.


Interesting concept, I guess it could work. The door is there which won't allow me to run the pan through it as the door would hit it, there is a small concrete slope/ramp outside the door. The actual box is 3 or 4" above the floor level so they did concrete ramps to reach the doorway.
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