[Otto Nobedder]

Good point. I've never seen an argument here, either.

I have, however, seen one of my posts from here used on another forum in an attempt to pick a fight.

I told him I was flattered to have a stalker...

Steve

[kermdawg]

Quality often suffers with larger quantities. I like this board because the quality seems higher than the others that I've visited. I can't recall seeing a single slug fest on this board. When that starts happening I'll move on. Jody does a good job of Moderating.

Ive seen a couple good fights on here actually. One of the best ones I've ever seen on a forum in a matter of fact.

Jody does do a great job monitoring these forums. I would like to see him chime in some more. As is he kind of reminds me of some kind of omnipresent welding god that probably reads half these posts and thinks to himself "when will they ever learn".

I just thought we could have some stickys of some good posts and commonly asked questions to save people the time and headache of people asking the same question over and over again.

Hey otto, I seen ya over at that construction chat forum. Imma start keepin up over there too. Kinda reminds of a job site, and seein as how I aint been on one in pushin a year, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, hearin guys talk about draggin up cause their foremans a retard :p

[lindsay75]

The OP is right. New guy here that hasn't just came on and said hi.......Soooooo.......hi.

[Otto Nobedder]

Hey otto, I seen ya over at that construction chat forum. Imma start keepin up over there too. Kinda reminds of a job site, and seein as how I aint been on one in pushin a year, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, hearin guys talk about draggin up cause their foremans a retard :p

That's one thing I like about that forum. It does feel a bit like a jobsite, with all kinds of people who aren't shy about saying what they think. There are jokes, hard digs when someone says something dumb, and outright fights between different personalities.

Some of the reasons people get fired or drag up make me laugh.

It's also a good yardstick for the state of the economy, at least in regard to construction work.

Do you participate there, or, like any good train wreck, stand back and watch?

Steve

[kermdawg]

well I just found out about it and like a jobsite, you dont wanna just go sit down with the cool guys and eat lunch and talk about your roids lol

I miss watchin fights in the parking lot after work. I miss lockin guys out on their scissor lifts while their 20 feet up in the air and the GF's about to do a walk through (or just before lunch time is even better). I miss sendin my apprentice to go fetch me 10 feet of falopian tube.

God damn economy, pick up already!! I need some work babe!

[Otto Nobedder]

[quote="kermdawg"... I miss sendin my apprentice to go fetch me 10 feet of falopian tube...[/quote]

I like that one. My crew once had a green fire/hole watch who was assigned to pick up rod butts one day. We sent him to the tool crib for a magnet, and he was happily doing his job. About a quarter of the butts were 308 or 309, and he asked me why the magnet wouldn't get them. I said, "Oh, those are stainless rods. You'll have to ask for the stainless magnet to get those." Before I could even crack a smile, he was headed for the tool crib!

He didn't trust anything I told him after that.

I also had a foreman who liked to send the green kids to the tool crib for a "uterus punch".

Steve

[kermdawg]

Ya, the good old days. When I was workin in a tower on the 21st floor and the laydown yard was in the basement, and there was a half hour wait for the manlift. Poor bastard missed his breaks every day till I told him they finally got the stairs up and runnin. (LOL)Then he only missed half of em cause his lazy ass would walk down em but not up em.

[sros]

It's hard to say why some boards succeeds more than others.
I'm the new guy here, as I've only posted a few times and more to the point...I'm not a professional (Welder that is).

However, I'm no spring chicken (47) and have been around boards for a long time, seeking out advice where no one in my near proximity could offer an answer.
I'm by profession a pilot. I flew fighters in the Norwegian air force (F-16's for the most part) for a decade before I joined the civilian ranks and became a commercial airline pilot.

I'm a literate man, and love books. I'm also a practical man who set my pride in fixing things and get them to work. I try to learn as much as I can of any trade within the boundaries of my time and talent.
I used to be, and still am to a certain degree, a computer wizard. This was beyond the scope of my work (we have support and professionals running the show), but I remember from my air force days how frustrating it was waiting for some support bloke to come and fix a trivial problem that grinded our squadron to a halt.
Therefore I started studying computer programming. I became somewhat of a wizard in Windows problems and various applications we dealt with.
It was a deed of necessity, more than one of passion.

I did, however, develop a curiosity beyond the needs of the squadron at the time, and started looking outwards.
That's how I came in contact with a lot of computer programming forums, and ended up as a member of quite a lot of them. The one I got especially attached to was WDF (webdesignfoums.net, which has been sold a couple of times and changed owners after that), who dealt with programming web servers.
After beeing a member for a few years I was promoted to moderator. Point being that you get a kind of community feeling after a while. You get new friends sharing your interest, and it becomes a whole new social sphere you can interact within.
I actually met one of my moderator friends when I took my whole family to Miami on vacation in 2003.
That was a thrill!!

We had become friends after years of writing and moderating the same forum, and hit it off immediately when we first met in flesh and blood. I felt I knew the guy already, and I wasn't wrong. He was just as I imagined after talking through numerous post throughout a couple of years.

The reason i ended up on that forum (I had been through numerous in those days), was the fact of their friendly and including tone. The board was heavily moderated to weed out spam and obnoxious posts, and that made it stick out. That kind of politeness and all inclusiveness, made me stick to the board.
There were many members in different countries who tried to start their own boards and failed. I can't really say why, but I think that any board needs to have some sort of community feeling to succeed. That feeling comes from a sound core of experts at the bottom, sharing their knowledge in a non-condecending way.

Perhaps welding is such a niche that the general public can't relate to it, contrary to a web programming community where everybody can participate without any investment.
Take me as an example. I love to design and construct things. I consider myself a woodworking master. I think I have wood-craft tools close to $ 50.000 in my garage. Welding is just a small part of it.
However, when I started to weld on a hobby basis, I quickly learned that I needed a TIG for precision welding. The price of those machines are breathtaking
Welding might therefore always be for the privileged few (apart from the professionals).
Additionally, welding is difficult and complicated.
Anybody can get two pieces of metal to stick together with a MIG torch, but it will be ugly and faulty.
Welding is complicated and requires an education, or at least a professional supervisor who can point out what it is you are doing wrong.
If you combine that with the high entry level price (machines), you have a topic that is gonna have far few members than the average webdesign forums that costs no more than the average teen-ager can afford (albeit the programming world can be far more complex than welding could ever be).

Point beeing, ..
The welding community is small.
The tone of the community in combination with it's level of expertise, is critical to success.
Jody's high profile (youtube) is the biggest reason for this forums success. That is at least the reason I came here looking for help. I guess many of the other welding forums out there are made by, and run by professional welders. I would never dare to post my trivial amateur questions in such a forum. I know (from Jody's videos), that this forum allows for people like me to ask questions without being ridiculed, and that some of the guys giving answers are hard core seasoned professionals.
So... People like me can post questions, amateurish and stupid, without being ridiculed and belittled.

[Otto Nobedder]

Wile I might argue the welding community is much larger than you suggest (I checked out weldingweb.com and had no idea where to start in that mess), I must agree I prefer interacting with people who conduct themselves as gentlemen, regardless of their skill level.

Steve

[kermdawg]

erhaps welding is such a niche that the general public can't relate to it, contrary to a web programming community where everybody can participate without any investment.
Take me as an example. I love to design and construct things. I consider myself a woodworking master. I think I have wood-craft tools close to $ 50.000 in my garage. Welding is just a small part of it.
However, when I started to weld on a hobby basis, I quickly learned that I needed a TIG for precision welding. The price of those machines are breathtaking
Welding might therefore always be for the privileged few (apart from the professionals).
Additionally, welding is difficult and complicated.
Anybody can get two pieces of metal to stick together with a MIG torch, but it will be ugly and faulty.
Welding is complicated and requires an education, or at least a professional supervisor who can point out what it is you are doing wrong.
If you combine that with the high entry level price (machines), you have a topic that is gonna have far few members than the average webdesign forums that costs no more than the average teen-ager can afford (albeit the programming world can be far more complex than welding could ever be).

I read this and smiled. When I was 14 I started building web pages :p now im 26 and have been welding for almost 2 years now. I wonder how many other people have takin the same path that me and you have brotha? Maybe its a certain type of personality/genetic predisposition. I bet your a perfectionist too eh?

The truth about welding is, its not complicated and it doesnt require an extensive education. I bet 90 percent of the guys on this forum that have been welding for 30 plus years learned out in the field, started out as helpers or apprentices, and were taught by guys who had been welding for 30 years before them. Thats how the construction trades and many other blue collar trades used to be, either passed on from father to son, or from journeyman to apprentice. Its something I've always paid attention to, and I always try to sit with the old timers at break and lunch rather than my buddies I drink beer with afterwork, because that old timer will be GLAD to teach you everything you want to know, if you'll only ask the right questions, and put up with his shit.

NOWADAYS, with all these certifications and the emphasis that schools (at least in the USA) put on college, the construction trades are dying out. Theres going to be some 500,000 welding jobs coming availible in the next 10 years, not only from more work, but from the baby boomers retiring. And whos going to fill those jobs? Kids these days are taught in school that working with your hands and sweatin for a livin is bad and wrong, and sitting in an office in front of a computer for 8 hours a day is good and right. Sad if you ask me.

Before I ever struck an arc, I already knew a hell of alot about welding. I asked them old hands every question I could every chance I got, and I knew what my beads should look like when I'm done. I had an idea of what rod to use for what and what the settings on the machine should be. But theres some stuff that only experience teachs, and nothing replaces actual seat time in welding, or ANY construction trade for that matter. You cant teach experience. And the more I welded, the more I realized how much I actually didnt know about welding. And that only made me want to learn and do it more

/end story time for tonight :p

[Otto Nobedder]

kermdawg, sros,

Is this a trend?

I welded my first bead when I was thirteen. I learned to program a computer the same year. I'm giving away my age, but the primary languages were BASIC, PASCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, and assembler. The Apple IIe was the most advanced small computer available. In high school, as I was getting half-decent at running a bead, I was competing at the international level for programming in BASIC, and managing the computer lab at the elementary school.

I wonder if there is a correlation between welding skills and computer skills?

[kermdawg]

I think its more a correlation between personality types. I.E. people who are into computer programming are more likely to be into welding and visa versa.

HOWEVER-I want to bring up something that some of you older guys can probably comment on. ALOT of the older hands I have worked with, still dont have a cell phone, never used a computer, etc. Being that 75 percent of welders (and all construction workers in this country really) are over the age of 40, dont you think that could have something to do with it? Many people over 40 havnt embraced techonology like my generation has, and therefore arent going to hop onto a forum, much less a forum for something they have been doing for 20 plus years and presumeably are already very good at it.

Likewise, many of the older hands still have the "if you dont know what your doing stand firewatch for 6 months and MAYBE ill let you tach a hanger on" attitude when it comes to teaching. That is, they are very secretive and not willing to teach others about their craft. I've been doing construction since I was 14, professionally since I was 18, and I havnt run across very many guys like this, maybe one or two. But I know back in the day alot of em were like that. Hence yet another reason a forum like this may not be as active as one might think.

BTW, I started programming on a tandy when I was 4, with a basic book my mom had from college. I remember apple II E's and her robotics class. I remember my first computer was a 486 16 mhz with 16 megs of ram and a 180 megabyte harddrive, of which windows 3.1 took up about 30 percent of that. Ive been building computers since I was 11. Guess building stuffs just in my blood.Remember c and c++?Visual basic ring a bell anyone? :p Now I feel old. THANKS OTTO!!

[Otto Nobedder]

I'm 42.

I have a cell phone, but they'll have a hard time selling me a smartphone.

The last time I got a new cell phone, the eager young kid asked what features I was looking for. You should have seen the look on his face when I said I need it to make and receive calls.

I kept up with tech until I was about 26, when I realized I didn't really need any of it. I went two years without a telephone of any kind, on purpose. I now use what I'm comfortable with, and ignore the rest. Social networking? That's what I do at the bar after work (and I rarely do that!).

It might have seemed the old hands were keeping secrets, but you had to prove you deserved to learn before they would turn loose of their knowledge. You didn't have 50 "no habla" in line with you for the job.

Steve

[kermdawg]

I'm 42.

I have a cell phone, but they'll have a hard time selling me a smartphone.

The last time I got a new cell phone, the eager young kid asked what features I was looking for. You should have seen the look on his face when I said I need it to make and receive calls.

This is hilarious cause I am the exact same way cept im 15 years younger :p My old phone got stolen on the job one day(one of the laborers I think) and I went to replace it. FIRST THING the guy does is try and sell me an Iphone. I said, dude, I'm a construction worker. That thing will be destroyed in a week(turns out I was wrong, cause the next job I went to 5 of the guys on a 14 man crew had em) So he said, well what do you want in a phone? I said, SOMETHING THAT MAKES PHONE CALLS. WTF else is a phone for.

I had actually researched a phone that you can dunk in water for up to 1 minute and still work, and they actually ran it over with a semi and it worked too. Mil spec ! (my research was maxim magazine lol) but it still works, tough little bugger. stands up well to the dust, which as you guys all know, is/was hell on the older phones.

Guess im just old fashioned. Why's everything so complicated these days? Why isnt life SIMPLE anymore?? Why do I need 50 differant functions on my tig welder?

edit-social networking? I had facebook/myspace for about 2 years. Then I quit. Now none of my friends talk to me anymore cause all they ever do is talk to each other on FB/Myspace. Probably the only guy under 30 on the planet without a facebook page anymore lol.

[Otto Nobedder]

On reflection, I'm so glad I never got involved in facebook and the like.

If you google my full name, you'll get ONE exact match, and I can't do anything about that, as it is a public record (a court docket sheet ).

I like my privacy, and am pleased to still have most of it. Although my wife feels the same way, she's considering joining facebook as a way to keep up with the grandchildren (who are, of course, very tech-savvy and plugged in).

In reference to the dust, I have a small rare-earth magnetic pickup tool that does an awesome job of removing iron dust from the speakers on my phone, because it's stronger than the speaker magnet.

Steve

[metlcre8or]

I wouldn't presume to speak for everyone, but I'm sure many of the people on this forum are probably in the same boat as me. I run a small independent fab shop and these days we turn away practically no work. This doesn't leave much time (or energy) to spend on-line.

[metlcre8or]

kermdawg, sros,

Is this a trend?

I welded my first bead when I was thirteen. I learned to program a computer the same year. I'm giving away my age, but the primary languages were BASIC, PASCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, and assembler. The Apple IIe was the most advanced small computer available. In high school, as I was getting half-decent at running a bead, I was competing at the international level for programming in BASIC, and managing the computer lab at the elementary school.

I wonder if there is a correlation between welding skills and computer skills?

Otto,

I have been involved in computers since 1968 (when computers were the size of a small house and had the power of a cheap digital watch), have 17 computer related patents, been Engineering VP, COO and CEO of several computer peripheral manufacturers. I can, and have programmed in nearly every computer language known. Today I own a small independent fab shop, enjoy welding and machining parts, and only use my computer (a Mac) for CAD, internet searches and email.

Working with metal is far more satisfying than anything done with computers.

Bill the metal creator.

[Otto Nobedder]

Bill, that sounds about right.

I've programmed an Altair with the flip switches and register key. I think it had 256 bytes of RAM.

My brother was a Marine Corps specialist in computers, and "installed" programs with punch-cards.

Thanks for the history lesson, and the reminder of my age.

Steve

[kermdawg]

I have been involved in computers since 1968 (when computers were the size of a small house and had the power of a cheap digital watch

Yep, thats goin in the sig :):)

---------------------------

Just scrolled down out of curiousty and the earlier post I could find was from Oct 2009. I think theirs been a board change or two, but if thats as old as the site is, theres a real possibilty alot of people just dont know about it and the community hasnt had the time to grow yet. I mean, thats less than 2 years old.