Hello All,
I am a maintenance technician at an industrial factory, and a novice welder. Most of our welding is structural, and it's a rough and tumble operation. I wanted to gain some of the insight that is present in this forum regarding some information I have received from a fellow senior maintenance technician.
The gist of it is as follows: 6011 rods are more "flexible" than 7018's, and thus more useful in applications where vibration or torsion may be present. A 7018 is "harder," like a hardened tap compared to milder steel and more useful in abrasive situations.
While I am a novice, I am a good researcher, and I can't find any information to support this theory. The 7018's seem to be the backbone of structural welding, and while 6011/10's have their uses, the 7018 is stronger and more crack resistant.
Would any of you more experienced welders out there be able to set me straight on this issue? Most of the people I could have brought this question to locally in the past have gone , and it seems like this community is as good as any in regards to good information.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Gordy,
Unfortunately they have it backwards for those qualitie of 6011 and 7018. Not only is 7018 just a smidge stronger in Tensile strenghth, it has higher "Charpy-V Notch" ratings. Quite simply it means that, when welded correctly as a low-hydrogen rod, a specimen welded with 7018, under specific test conditions, can withstand larger energy impacts (on the opposite side of a specified V-notch ground into the piece) before fracture/failure, than an identical specimen welded with 6011 would. Not sure how you arrived at your theory, but at least now you can rest assured they're on the correct path of enlightenment.
Lincoln SMAW Guide. Page 38-44
Unfortunately they have it backwards for those qualitie of 6011 and 7018. Not only is 7018 just a smidge stronger in Tensile strenghth, it has higher "Charpy-V Notch" ratings. Quite simply it means that, when welded correctly as a low-hydrogen rod, a specimen welded with 7018, under specific test conditions, can withstand larger energy impacts (on the opposite side of a specified V-notch ground into the piece) before fracture/failure, than an identical specimen welded with 6011 would. Not sure how you arrived at your theory, but at least now you can rest assured they're on the correct path of enlightenment.
Lincoln SMAW Guide. Page 38-44
Last edited by Oscar on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GordyBrewster
- GordyBrewster
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While I am a novice, I am a good researcher, and I can't find any information to support this theory. The 7018's seem to be the backbone of structural welding, and while 6011/10's have their uses, the 7018 is stronger and more crack resistant.
Thanks. That's what I was thinking. I was wanting confirmation before I made any kind of an argument at work.
Thanks. That's what I was thinking. I was wanting confirmation before I made any kind of an argument at work.
TraditionalToolworks
- TraditionalToolworks
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Location:San Jose / Kelseyville
I'm also not a professional welder, so take a much more simplistic approach to 7018 vs. 6011. First some important details about these rods.
6011 is merely a 6010 rod that has some additives to be able to run on AC. Most people run it on DC however. It can be run on machines that are not capable of running 6010, in some cases, and in other cases not.
7018 is a rod used for structural work and is a low hydrogen rod, which requires it be stored in an oven. People like me don't store it in an oven and it works fine for me, but if you were doing code work that spec'd 7018 you would be required to keep it in an oven while you were using it.
Now for my simplistic approach.
6010/6011 are hard digging rods that can weld on less clean metal, the hard digging action creates a lot of splatter and IMO is not as pleasant to use, but the fact you can use it on metal that is not as clean is the plus for me. Because of this digging action it is often used for root passes, but for me that doesn't matter as much as I don't need to do root passes on most of the project I do for myself. Could matter for what you do though. I tend to think of this rod as being better for work outside, or metal that hasn't be cleaned thoroughly. It requires a whip-n-pause or similar technique to get a good bead. Slag can be harder to get off than 7018.
7018 is just a good all around rod for structural welding. For me it's more pleasant to weld with as it lays down pretty smooth. I look at this as being one of the best rods for all purpose use. It has a couple annoyances, like slag covers the end of the rod if you stop, so you need to learn to fling it off quickly or clean it off before you start again. It's much harder to clean with a file or knocking it on the ground (not the best idea, but I do it
). It's more difficult to start also. Slag comes off the bead nicely when done correct.
I don't have a machine that runs 6010, so 6011 and 7018 are the rods I will typically use. However, 6013 is not a bad rod either and is not as difficult to run beads as 6011, so not bad to have.
As far as tensile strength, most of my welds would be fine with less than 60,000 lbs, so the difference between 60,000 and 70,000 lbs. is moot for me. Hope that helps. All of our mileage varies.
6011 is merely a 6010 rod that has some additives to be able to run on AC. Most people run it on DC however. It can be run on machines that are not capable of running 6010, in some cases, and in other cases not.
7018 is a rod used for structural work and is a low hydrogen rod, which requires it be stored in an oven. People like me don't store it in an oven and it works fine for me, but if you were doing code work that spec'd 7018 you would be required to keep it in an oven while you were using it.
Now for my simplistic approach.
6010/6011 are hard digging rods that can weld on less clean metal, the hard digging action creates a lot of splatter and IMO is not as pleasant to use, but the fact you can use it on metal that is not as clean is the plus for me. Because of this digging action it is often used for root passes, but for me that doesn't matter as much as I don't need to do root passes on most of the project I do for myself. Could matter for what you do though. I tend to think of this rod as being better for work outside, or metal that hasn't be cleaned thoroughly. It requires a whip-n-pause or similar technique to get a good bead. Slag can be harder to get off than 7018.
7018 is just a good all around rod for structural welding. For me it's more pleasant to weld with as it lays down pretty smooth. I look at this as being one of the best rods for all purpose use. It has a couple annoyances, like slag covers the end of the rod if you stop, so you need to learn to fling it off quickly or clean it off before you start again. It's much harder to clean with a file or knocking it on the ground (not the best idea, but I do it
). It's more difficult to start also. Slag comes off the bead nicely when done correct.I don't have a machine that runs 6010, so 6011 and 7018 are the rods I will typically use. However, 6013 is not a bad rod either and is not as difficult to run beads as 6011, so not bad to have.
As far as tensile strength, most of my welds would be fine with less than 60,000 lbs, so the difference between 60,000 and 70,000 lbs. is moot for me. Hope that helps. All of our mileage varies.
Collector of old Iron!
Alan
Alan
GordyBrewster
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Thanks everybody.
So the fact is that a 6011 weld with good technique does not produce a joint that is more "flexible" and less likely to break under any kind of circumstance than a 7018 weld performed with proper technique and properly prepped material.
Thank you folks for your patience. I know this was a remedial question but I just wanted to have my ducks in a row before I buck any kind of established thought process by a fellow worker.
Thanks again.
So the fact is that a 6011 weld with good technique does not produce a joint that is more "flexible" and less likely to break under any kind of circumstance than a 7018 weld performed with proper technique and properly prepped material.
Thank you folks for your patience. I know this was a remedial question but I just wanted to have my ducks in a row before I buck any kind of established thought process by a fellow worker.
Thanks again.
Yup, stick welding rocks. Heck all processes rock! lol I edited my post to change "you" to "they", as I mis-typed who was under the incorrect assumptions.GordyBrewster wrote:Thanks everybody.
So the fact is that a 6011 weld with good technique does not produce a joint that is more "flexible" and less likely to break under any kind of circumstance than a 7018 weld performed with proper technique and properly prepped material.
Thank you folks for your patience. I know this was a remedial question but I just wanted to have my ducks in a row before I buck any kind of established thought process by a fellow worker.
Thanks again.
Speaking of stick welding, anyone ever see twin-tandem arcs off two electrodes/two stingers at the same time, each stinger hooked up to individual dinse ports, aka no ground clamp? It works. If your machine has the balls for it. I call this one the "warranty void'er!"
Twin-Tandem Stick Electrodes on the HTP Inverarc 200 TLP - NO "Ground" Clamp!
6010/7010/8010 are the root pass electrodes that pipe welders use.
They fill and cap with 7018/8018 etc after that. I like using 6010 for doing repair/modification work on rusty/dirty trailers.
Structural welding can only
be done by certified welders. There is big liability in structural welding. Only low hydrogen welding processes (like 7018) can be used for structural welding. 6010/6011 don’t qualify for structural welding.
They fill and cap with 7018/8018 etc after that. I like using 6010 for doing repair/modification work on rusty/dirty trailers.
Structural welding can only
be done by certified welders. There is big liability in structural welding. Only low hydrogen welding processes (like 7018) can be used for structural welding. 6010/6011 don’t qualify for structural welding.