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Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby tungstendipper » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:03 am

Keep us posted. I hope it's a simple fix. My guess, an intermittent neutral.
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby aland » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:22 am

cj737 wrote:How large a fuse is on that circuit? You should never run anything higher than the machine requires (like a 50 amp when your machine calls for a 30)


My understanding is that this is only true if you use 30 amp wire on a 50 amp circuit, that could be a problem.

If you have a machine that draws 30 amps, it's perfectly fine to use 50 amp wire to plug it into a 50 amp circuit. You must use wire for the circuit, not the machine, otherwise what you suggest could be a problem.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Alan
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby wes gable » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:20 am

Ok, some of you said you wanted to be updated on the consensus of my little dilemma so here goes, events in the order they happened...

My electrician ruled out any problems with the wiring in the shop.

Did some more extensive looking for reviews and customer feedback concerning this type of problem. I discovered that Lincoln does not post customer reviews on their website, but Miller does on some of their products. Almost everything I found pointed toward the fact that low end inverter based TIG machines are notorious for "popping", regardless of make or model. If you want a machine that is more or less guaranteed to be reliable you need to shell out a bit more green.

Called my dealer back and touched base with him. He said that, almost verbatim quote "the Squarewave 200 is an economy model inverter based machine, and so it will be sensitive to any current fluctuations there may be, even if my other machines, drill presses, saws etc. showed no effect". Basically said, without saying it, that the inverter technology in the machine is flimsy and problem prone, which confirmed what I was suspecting.

Checked AGAIN and I could not create any fluctuations at all in current more than a volt or two anywhere in the shop no matter where I tested and what machines we turned on and off and operated. All the wires on the circuit were tight and no signs of arcing anywhere in the wiring. Which pointed me again to the quality of the welder.....

Called a different service center out of my area. When I called them I thought they were a dedicated welder repair shop but discovered after I was on the phone they were also a Lincoln dealer. He was a bit more forthright with me and said he has seen this problem before with the Squarewave 200, specifically with a batch of 25 machines sold to one customer and he replaced almost every one if them on warranty, and finally upgraded the customers machines to the Precision 225. They have had no trouble since. So I decided to follow his advice.

Ordered a Precision 225 yesterday. This is a transformer based machine with good reviews as near as I can find, and still reasonably priced for my budget. My salesman tried to talk me out of it and into a Miller Dynasty 210, at almost 3 times the cost of the Squarewave, based on the fact that , he said, the 225 doesn't have all the features an inverter machine will have. No pulse, no high frequency start. I pointed out to him that the catalogue lists both of those features......... Awkward pause, and he started writing up my order for a Precision 225.

The machine gets to me early next week so we will see how this turns out.

Things I learned-
-Never trust a salesman implicitly, unless he is far enough removed from you to not be hampered by expectations of commissions.
-Cheap welders are cheap for a reason. Not saying that there are not a lot of very satisfied Squarewave 200 users out there. Read the reviews and you will see there are. But cheap welders are problem prone and I happened to get 2 lemons in a row.

Thanks for the help and advice guys!
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby cj737 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:54 am

I'm sorry you're having problems, but I disagree strongly with the explanations about inverter-based machines being cheap, economy market products. There are thousands, if not 10s of thousands of inverter TIG boxes in use every day in the world. You simply got 2 lemons. There's not a thing wrong with a Lincoln, but I own Millers. And I own some cheap Miller Inverters and have NEVER seen of, or heard of the malarky the Welding Shop spewed to you.

And an modern inverter-based machine has so many benefits over a transformer, you're off your deck to go backwards. Buy a different brand box in your same budget. Or don't, and get the short straw again.
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby tungstendipper » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am

cj737 wrote:I'm sorry you're having problems, but I disagree strongly with the explanations about inverter-based machines being cheap, economy market products. There are thousands, if not 10s of thousands of inverter TIG boxes in use every day in the world. You simply got 2 lemons. There's not a thing wrong with a Lincoln, but I own Millers. And I own some cheap Miller Inverters and have NEVER seen of, or heard of the malarky the Welding Shop spewed to you.

And an modern inverter-based machine has so many benefits over a transformer, you're off your deck to go backwards. Buy a different brand box in your same budget. Or don't, and get the short straw again.


That was good. I liked that, put my mind at ease. Honest assessment.
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby wes gable » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:12 pm

To clarify I do not think it is a bad idea to buy a cheap welder but I do think cheap welders are cheap for a reason. The components are less reliable and lemons more common. I don't doubt inverter technology is a great thing and there are lots of very happy people using these machines. I guess " once bitten twice shy" applies to me. Twice bitten very very shy. Thanks!!!
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby aland » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:51 pm

wes gable wrote:To clarify I do not think it is a bad idea to buy a cheap welder but I do think cheap welders are cheap for a reason. The components are less reliable and lemons more common. I don't doubt inverter technology is a great thing and there are lots of very happy people using these machines. I guess " once bitten twice shy" applies to me. Twice bitten very very shy. Thanks!!!


I understand the "once bitten twice shy" syndrome, but have to wonder why there are so many inverters being used in aerospace? At least I have heard that is true for work that NASA does, but don't have direct experience.

Jody Collier pushes some of the inverters he uses to the limit and back, and many of them stand up just fine. This might be a good question for you to submit to him for his weekly video or pod cast.

Alan
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby rahtreelimbs » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:27 pm

I have several tig welders all but one are inverters. I am sold on on inverters. But.......having seen what you went through I don't blame you for going the transformer route. You need to satisfy yourself and no one else.
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby mechanic416 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:10 am

I read this thread 3 time till it hit me. You bought a Lincoln Squarewave 200 tig welder and after a few days of use it goes bad, ok it happens. You take it back and they sell you their demo unit and you take it back to the shop and hook it up to the same plug and blow it up.

That tells me you have something wrong in your shops electric system. If the demo was working fine at the dealers then it should work fine at your shop.

Transformer welders can take more electric fluctuation or spikes then inverter's can to a point.

The Lincoln Squarewave 200 is really not a CHEAP inverter welder. Lincoln made this welder to compete with all the Chinese units coming into the market.
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Re: Squarewave 200 PROBLEMS!??

Postby rahtreelimbs » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:52 pm

mechanic416 wrote:I read this thread 3 time till it hit me. You bought a Lincoln Squarewave 200 tig welder and after a few days of use it goes bad, ok it happens. You take it back and they sell you their demo unit and you take it back to the shop and hook it up to the same plug and blow it up.

That tells me you have something wrong in your shops electric system. If the demo was working fine at the dealers then it should work fine at your shop.

Transformer welders can take more electric fluctuation or spikes then inverter's can to a point.

The Lincoln Squarewave 200 is really not a CHEAP inverter welder. Lincoln made this welder to compete with all the Chinese units coming into the market.



Good thought.
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