I'm interested in buying these wheels to do beveling of tanks for weld prep and gouging of cracks and welds etc.
Was just curious if anyone has first hand experience with them or has at least seen one at a tradeshow etc.
https://www.pferd.com/int-en/products/h ... peed-disc/
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That was my thought instantly when I seen it one of those "10 amazing tool" videos.Oscar wrote:That thing looks badass.
Sure my circular saw blade on a angle grinder works too but this seems much safer and actually looks just as fast if not faster.
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Jakedaawg
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Joined:Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:45 pm
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Location:Near Traverse City, Mi.
They have a very wide kerf, like 1/2". Can be tricky to get started. No margin of error, they cut instantly what they touch. Gloves won't protect like with a disc. Someone gave me one, a used one. I took it out of the shop. Some of the meat heads I have around here...let's just say I don't want to try out the insurance.
Now, if you could install one in a cold saw or something that wasn't handheld it would be sweet. I just don't need it considering the way my shop is. All we do is aluminum. Dirty filthy used underwater old aluminum. But it pays really well.
Now, if you could install one in a cold saw or something that wasn't handheld it would be sweet. I just don't need it considering the way my shop is. All we do is aluminum. Dirty filthy used underwater old aluminum. But it pays really well.
Miller Dynasty 280 DX, Lincoln 210 MP, More tools than I have boxes for and a really messy shop.
Ah that was on of my concerns was the width of the cutter may be too great to control.Jakedaawg wrote:They have a very wide kerf, like 1/2". Can be tricky to get started. No margin of error, they cut instantly what they touch. Gloves won't protect like with a disc. Someone gave me one, a used one. I took it out of the shop. Some of the meat heads I have around here...let's just say I don't want to try out the insurance.
Now, if you could install one in a cold saw or something that wasn't handheld it would be sweet. I just don't need it considering the way my shop is. All we do is aluminum. Dirty filthy used underwater old aluminum. But it pays really well.
Although come to think of it my saw seemed unmanageable to me at first but now I have near perfect control of the blade.
But I definitely understand the meat head thing. No one touches the saw but me.
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Well as a bit of an update.
Contact pferd Australia first since I only found the wheel on that catalog. They answered within 24 hrs and told me it's not AU exclusive And to contact pferd USA.
Contact pferd USA and had no response.
Found a contact for pferd Canada and thought I was going to get no response as well. Till a couple days back a fella showed up at the shop saying he was a sales rep for a company that could supply the wheel.
But he knew nothing about it other than he thinks they're really expensive and are north of $2K per wheel.
Now just to wait again for the other guy that knows all about the pferd line to come back to the shop to discuss the Alumaster and whether it's a good fit for my needs
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Contact pferd Australia first since I only found the wheel on that catalog. They answered within 24 hrs and told me it's not AU exclusive And to contact pferd USA.
Contact pferd USA and had no response.
Found a contact for pferd Canada and thought I was going to get no response as well. Till a couple days back a fella showed up at the shop saying he was a sales rep for a company that could supply the wheel.
But he knew nothing about it other than he thinks they're really expensive and are north of $2K per wheel.
Now just to wait again for the other guy that knows all about the pferd line to come back to the shop to discuss the Alumaster and whether it's a good fit for my needs
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Ah darn I was actually keeping that in the back of my head that you may have a used one for me to make an offer onJakedaawg wrote:Wow, maybe I shouldn't have given it back...
Well here's to hoping the salesman was mistake and the wheels are bit more reasonable.
My brain says they should be around $500 tops inserts/screws included.
Then again I'm often shocked when a machinist tells me how much some of their cutters cost and I guess it's essentially the same but on a angle grinder.
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Well as a little update to this,
After much back and forth with PFERD area sales rep for me. I have found out the particular wheel style of the alumaster that I want is not available in Canada as of yet.
He says he can get me the other type which looks more so designed for slotting and gouging than for beveling and face milling.
But there is hope as he said a large ship building company in the states recently put in a $300k order for the alumaster products. Might get a fire under PFERD's butt to bring the whole lineup to north America.
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After much back and forth with PFERD area sales rep for me. I have found out the particular wheel style of the alumaster that I want is not available in Canada as of yet.
He says he can get me the other type which looks more so designed for slotting and gouging than for beveling and face milling.
But there is hope as he said a large ship building company in the states recently put in a $300k order for the alumaster products. Might get a fire under PFERD's butt to bring the whole lineup to north America.
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Anyone who works with aluminum, or rather cuts/grinds it every day will probably be well prepared for the possibility, but I could see you getting a kickback from hell using this thing, not exactly the kind of tool I'd be willing to use on a grinder without a handle and guard available. If you've ever taken a hole saw to aluminum or not waxed your blade well enough before cutting a piece of stock with a miter saw and put just a tiny bit too much pressure on it, you know exactly how sticky aluminum can be. It'll seize your blade/bit instantly and shear off a good 5-6 teeth in the process. I've had a piece of 2" wide 1/4" flatbar I was cutting catch and kickback into my hand so hard it bent the flat bar, felt like stopping a baseball bat with the side of your hand. I could imagine some new guy ramming one of these into a piece of aluminum and it launching the grinder clear across the room.
It's definitely the kind of tool you put zero pressure on and let the wheel do its thing.
And if I do end up getting one into the shop I bet I'll be the only one crazy enough to run it just like my current saw setup. Everyone in the shop is spooked by it and don't use it even though it would 10x faster than whatever they're using.
Attached a pic of my current setup. It works well for straight cuts to get the tanks off the bad core, but there is still room for improvement on the cutting of bevels for re welding to the new core. And that's where I think the alumaster will shine for me.
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And if I do end up getting one into the shop I bet I'll be the only one crazy enough to run it just like my current saw setup. Everyone in the shop is spooked by it and don't use it even though it would 10x faster than whatever they're using.
Attached a pic of my current setup. It works well for straight cuts to get the tanks off the bad core, but there is still room for improvement on the cutting of bevels for re welding to the new core. And that's where I think the alumaster will shine for me.
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You know at the old aluminum shop I worked at they knew a guy who had a blade set up on a grinder like that and was cutting something up near his face with no handle on or anything, kicked back, pretty much bisected his face supposedly. Honestly, though, assuming you have a handle on the grinder, I'm not sure if I find it much more horrifying than a regular cut off disc, on one hand it would instantly eviscerate you or slice off digits the moment it made contact, on the other hand it can't explode and throw potentially lethal shrapnel everywhere, and still be plenty capable of slicing into you anyways like a regular cut off disc. I'm almost as tempted to try it as terrified of the concept for making aluminum cuts, I know I've never had any kickback that's even came close to getting away from me on any grinder with a handle and in a stable stance, it's pretty hard for a grinder to overpower 240lb me when I'm in a strong position.
On the other hand, having that miter saw slam a piece of aluminum into my hand hard enough to bend it and make me feel like I blocked a bat with my hand wasn't a pleasant experience, and while I wouldn't imagine it could kick back that much worse than a dead stop kick back with any other disc, still a little unnerving hahaha.
Has it kicked back before on ya? And where did you get the blade you're using? The fact you're at least using a guard makes it seem slightly less suicidal of a concept somehow.
On the other hand, having that miter saw slam a piece of aluminum into my hand hard enough to bend it and make me feel like I blocked a bat with my hand wasn't a pleasant experience, and while I wouldn't imagine it could kick back that much worse than a dead stop kick back with any other disc, still a little unnerving hahaha.
Has it kicked back before on ya? And where did you get the blade you're using? The fact you're at least using a guard makes it seem slightly less suicidal of a concept somehow.
Gee whiz, just so we know right, no matter the wheel you should only use half of it. For example if you have an imaginary line from lead, handle through centre of wheel i.e. top to bottom then only cut with the side that spins down on that side, often that's the difference between kick back and blade grab. Like using top of chainsaw, can be done but shouldnt. I bought cheap plasma for this job cause all the hand held cutting options were just.....well it'll work but.... Anyways price of special aluminium cut wheels and blades over 12mths near paid for it.
It's a oshlun 5 3/8" diameter aluminium cutting blade.
I purchase them straight from Amazon.
They'll stay sharp for a very long time as long as I don't hit a tungsten inclusion or a sand inclusion in a casting. Little red sparks for half a second and it never cuts quite the same as a fresh blade.
I'm running slightly faster than recommended but have not had any issues noticed from that.
I've chipped a tooth or two off a blade here and there and even tore a dime sized section outve a dull blade that was missing a tooth.
Would suspect the tear out happened due to the imbalance of a MIA tooth.
And yes it will bite and grab if I try and force it through something. The key is to let the blade do it's thing. It's quick enough with its own weight so need to add anymore into it.
I've never had it kick back and come at me though. The old welder who was here before me told me the golden rule when hand cutting with a saw blade is 'ABC' or always be climbing. He told me that way if it ever does bite and grab it will pull itself up out of the cut and away from you.
Never had it pull the grinder out of my hands either. I'm all of 110LBS soaking wet so your more than likely going to have no issue.
These blades also work great in a battery or wired skill saw. I just don't like the weight/bulk of the tool. You might find a skillsaw more bearable since I would assume you've got bigger muscles then me and a skillsaw would not feel like much so to speak.
And yes I do have a handle on the grinder. I'm crazy but not that crazy
Only thing I would add to my guard setup is either a piece of sheet metal or plexiglass to contain the chips and a exhaust port of some sort to direct chips away from me.
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I purchase them straight from Amazon.
They'll stay sharp for a very long time as long as I don't hit a tungsten inclusion or a sand inclusion in a casting. Little red sparks for half a second and it never cuts quite the same as a fresh blade.
I'm running slightly faster than recommended but have not had any issues noticed from that.
I've chipped a tooth or two off a blade here and there and even tore a dime sized section outve a dull blade that was missing a tooth.
Would suspect the tear out happened due to the imbalance of a MIA tooth.
And yes it will bite and grab if I try and force it through something. The key is to let the blade do it's thing. It's quick enough with its own weight so need to add anymore into it.
I've never had it kick back and come at me though. The old welder who was here before me told me the golden rule when hand cutting with a saw blade is 'ABC' or always be climbing. He told me that way if it ever does bite and grab it will pull itself up out of the cut and away from you.
Never had it pull the grinder out of my hands either. I'm all of 110LBS soaking wet so your more than likely going to have no issue.
These blades also work great in a battery or wired skill saw. I just don't like the weight/bulk of the tool. You might find a skillsaw more bearable since I would assume you've got bigger muscles then me and a skillsaw would not feel like much so to speak.
And yes I do have a handle on the grinder. I'm crazy but not that crazy
Only thing I would add to my guard setup is either a piece of sheet metal or plexiglass to contain the chips and a exhaust port of some sort to direct chips away from me.
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Try out pferd or Walter ally cutting wheels if you haven't already.Gdarc21 wrote:Gee whiz, just so we know right, no matter the wheel you should only use half of it. For example if you have an imaginary line from lead, handle through centre of wheel i.e. top to bottom then only cut with the side that spins down on that side, often that's the difference between kick back and blade grab. Like using top of chainsaw, can be done but shouldnt. I bought cheap plasma for this job cause all the hand held cutting options were just.....well it'll work but.... Anyways price of special aluminium cut wheels and blades over 12mths near paid for it.
There pretty affordable but still don't cut anywhere near as fast or clean as my saw blade.
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Honestly seeing your setup and that you know what to expect when it grabs or bites, I don't honestly see it as that crazy or dangerous, hell, If I was at your shop I'd grab that over the countless other grinders without a guard or handle to be found and a standard cutoff disc. Honestly I'm pretty sure if I had 2 hands on it any grinder that could even give me a fight would be some horrific 240V monstrosity that nobody would use. A kickback with a handled 13 or 15 amp grinder that you've got locked in place has always felt like nothing, while the couple times I've almost dropped a grinder were with 6a or 7a grinders where I'm just using a light touch with no handle finishing something up or making a quick precise zip cut and it binds suddenly and wants to twist in my hands suddenly.
But on the other hand a 8 amp 850rpm 1/2" chuck corded Milwaukee drill and a 3 1/2" holesaw suddenly seizing to a dead stop and trying to break my wrist every 30 seconds got old quick and I would not want that amount of fight from a grinder
So honestly I may order a 6" guard for my 13 amp grinder and actually give it a try. I hate cutting aluminum with a cutoff disc, that's a lot cheaper to replace the rare occasion it does bite in and break a tooth than a circular saw blade or especially a 12" miter saw blade. Half the forum probably thinks I'm crazy for considering it, but eh enough people have been gutted with regular cut off discs and carelessness that if it doesn't kick like a mule I don't see as any worse than the risks we take with other cutting implements.
Also, as a general tip out there for anyone who might be reading who hasn't spent months in a shop working with aluminum, if you don't want to order dedicated blade wax for aluminum, regular bees wax works great too, the trick is to always make sure to wax your blade and while it can be cut with any method you'd cut wood, you want to choose generally the most fine tooth option available for that saw, eg at least 90 tooth for a 12" miter saw, 56 tooth ideally for a 7 1/4 circular saw etc. It's not like a chop saw or cutting steel with a metal cutting reciprocal saw that'll just slow down with more and more force, you need to use steady, moderate pressure while cutting. It'll bind to a dead stop instantly if you suddenly bear down on it, use too much force, don't use wax etc. You can get away with doing one or two of those things sometimes, but neglecting all 3 is a surefire way to destroy a blade while always keeping all 3 things in mind will practically make sure it never happens to you.
But on the other hand a 8 amp 850rpm 1/2" chuck corded Milwaukee drill and a 3 1/2" holesaw suddenly seizing to a dead stop and trying to break my wrist every 30 seconds got old quick and I would not want that amount of fight from a grinder
So honestly I may order a 6" guard for my 13 amp grinder and actually give it a try. I hate cutting aluminum with a cutoff disc, that's a lot cheaper to replace the rare occasion it does bite in and break a tooth than a circular saw blade or especially a 12" miter saw blade. Half the forum probably thinks I'm crazy for considering it, but eh enough people have been gutted with regular cut off discs and carelessness that if it doesn't kick like a mule I don't see as any worse than the risks we take with other cutting implements.Also, as a general tip out there for anyone who might be reading who hasn't spent months in a shop working with aluminum, if you don't want to order dedicated blade wax for aluminum, regular bees wax works great too, the trick is to always make sure to wax your blade and while it can be cut with any method you'd cut wood, you want to choose generally the most fine tooth option available for that saw, eg at least 90 tooth for a 12" miter saw, 56 tooth ideally for a 7 1/4 circular saw etc. It's not like a chop saw or cutting steel with a metal cutting reciprocal saw that'll just slow down with more and more force, you need to use steady, moderate pressure while cutting. It'll bind to a dead stop instantly if you suddenly bear down on it, use too much force, don't use wax etc. You can get away with doing one or two of those things sometimes, but neglecting all 3 is a surefire way to destroy a blade while always keeping all 3 things in mind will practically make sure it never happens to you.
Your not wrong, While it might be one of the more intimidating tools in my arsenal, once you do a couple cuts with it you quickly go "oh that's not as crazy as I thought"
Biggest thing I find is don't get complacent and have some respect for the tool in your hands, but hey that's really a rule for any power tool now ain't it
One thing I will note with the oshlun blade. It's not a standard 5/8 arbor outve the box. It comes with a little washer ring that allows it to for tightly on the threads but not over the hub of the grinder washer. I didn't like that so I asked a machinist to make me a special backer nut for my grinder thag fits the factory blade hole snug.
If you wind up giving it a whirl let me know how it goes and what grinder you wind up running it on etc
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Biggest thing I find is don't get complacent and have some respect for the tool in your hands, but hey that's really a rule for any power tool now ain't it
One thing I will note with the oshlun blade. It's not a standard 5/8 arbor outve the box. It comes with a little washer ring that allows it to for tightly on the threads but not over the hub of the grinder washer. I didn't like that so I asked a machinist to make me a special backer nut for my grinder thag fits the factory blade hole snug.
If you wind up giving it a whirl let me know how it goes and what grinder you wind up running it on etc
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Ah thanks for the heads up, as simple of a thing as that is, I'm afraid machinist connections are the one kind I don't have, though perhaps a CNC plasma table could cut something like that out accurately enough, especially with a little hand finishing.
Even though I no longer work at the boat shop or do much aluminum work for pay, it's long remained my favorite material to work with. Money solves all problems that come with cutting and prepping steel of course, But I can go outside, cut some coupons on the miter saw, wire brush them if needed, give them a quick wipe down with acetone, tig for a couple hours and come back inside with dust free with clean clothes, unless I have to resort to a cutoff wheel that is, you go cut a few steel coupons and grind them free of any oxidation and mill scale and now you're so filthy that not even a shower will always erase the uncomfortable feeling of grinding and abrasive dust coating your skin. It's part of being a welder, but it doesn't mean it's enjoyable. Not to mention unless you've got expensive carbide dry cut saws, industrial shears, a properly set and tensioned industrial bandsaw etc, the cut quality from the couple options available to you with steel will always be garbage in comparison.
Even though I no longer work at the boat shop or do much aluminum work for pay, it's long remained my favorite material to work with. Money solves all problems that come with cutting and prepping steel of course, But I can go outside, cut some coupons on the miter saw, wire brush them if needed, give them a quick wipe down with acetone, tig for a couple hours and come back inside with dust free with clean clothes, unless I have to resort to a cutoff wheel that is, you go cut a few steel coupons and grind them free of any oxidation and mill scale and now you're so filthy that not even a shower will always erase the uncomfortable feeling of grinding and abrasive dust coating your skin. It's part of being a welder, but it doesn't mean it's enjoyable. Not to mention unless you've got expensive carbide dry cut saws, industrial shears, a properly set and tensioned industrial bandsaw etc, the cut quality from the couple options available to you with steel will always be garbage in comparison.
Well as an update to this, my rep called me today and says he has got his hands on a alumaster.
He should be coming to see me tomorrow at 9am. Will keep everyone posted as to how it goes and what I think of the wheel etc.
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He should be coming to see me tomorrow at 9am. Will keep everyone posted as to how it goes and what I think of the wheel etc.
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Well the rep showed up that day and explained to me there a miscommunication and he didn't have a portion of the tool to show me.
He had it rush shipped up here and it arrived yesterday, he came in today.
My oh my what a aluminium removal to this is.
Cuts smooth with no vibrations in your hand.
Was able to do approx 3/8" wide x3/8 deep groove in all of 3 seconds.
It does throw a fair bit of chips but they're small enough that they don't hurt through a glove, definitely do feel them on your hand though.
All in all, I do believe I will be purchasing the setup even though it is quite pricey.
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Forgot pics. Edited to add.
He had it rush shipped up here and it arrived yesterday, he came in today.
My oh my what a aluminium removal to this is.
Cuts smooth with no vibrations in your hand.
Was able to do approx 3/8" wide x3/8 deep groove in all of 3 seconds.
It does throw a fair bit of chips but they're small enough that they don't hurt through a glove, definitely do feel them on your hand though.
All in all, I do believe I will be purchasing the setup even though it is quite pricey.
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Forgot pics. Edited to add.
What was the final price tag?
Toggatug wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:27 pm Well the rep showed up that day and explained to me there a miscommunication and he didn't have a portion of the tool to show me.
He had it rush shipped up here and it arrived yesterday, he came in today.
My oh my what a aluminium removal to this is.
Cuts smooth with no vibrations in your hand.
Was able to do approx 3/8" wide x3/8 deep groove in all of 3 seconds.
It does throw a fair bit of chips but they're small enough that they don't hurt through a glove, definitely do feel them on your hand though.
All in all, I do believe I will be purchasing the setup even though it is quite pricey.
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Forgot pics. Edited to add.
Price tag to me is $1424 +tax (Canadian) + $156 +tax for the recommended torque limiting screwdriver. 4 neuton meters if my memory serves me correctly.
Pricey but definitely nicey,
They did a cost analysis for a large shipbuilding firm in the US and they said a task that took 8-10 minutes with conventional abrasives can be done in 39 seconds with the Alumaster.
That particular company put an order in for $400k worth after that one simple test the salesman told me.
I've still yet to place my order, figuring out if I'm asking for permission or forgiveness so to speak
Pricey but definitely nicey,
They did a cost analysis for a large shipbuilding firm in the US and they said a task that took 8-10 minutes with conventional abrasives can be done in 39 seconds with the Alumaster.
That particular company put an order in for $400k worth after that one simple test the salesman told me.
I've still yet to place my order, figuring out if I'm asking for permission or forgiveness so to speak