After bitching at plasma for many years this video FINALLY gets made that spills the truth.
Listen carefully if you're new to this or considering opening the wallet to get into it. It's what all the salesman "forget" to mention.
" OH. You have air ? " Duhh Yeah.
You're ready to go then !
. AHEM---this is where I always begin screaming.
Anyhow. Here's the reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqwUGUWxQZs
[youtube]https://youtu.be/HqwUGUWxQZs[/youtube]
Antorcha - I too am a little confused by the point of the original post, but from what i can gather you area a little frustrated by a past experience with buying a plasma system? If that's the case, then i have a few thoughts:
Any salesman that is TRULY interested in helping a customer will take the time to determine if the machine fits an application, or if the customer has the tools, abilities, or circumstances to use the equipment properly. Unfortunately in this day and age salesman like this are few and far between, especially at the inside sales / counter job at your welding supply company. So i can understand frustration in not always getting good answers when asking your LWS for advise. I am a salesman at a welding supply distributor, and i hear all too often the horror stories of customers who are given bad information or are not helped in the least by other suppliers. I no one knows everything of course, but it's not too much to ask a salesman to find the answer - the salesman should be humble enough to say 'I don't know, but I'll find the answer.' If he/she is not, I wouldn't spend a dime with that person. Also, any salesman who thinks they can sell you what you need without asking questions about you needs/abilities/equipment available/budget etc... should be avoided at all costs.
On the other hand, as a business owner, or even a hobbyist - you have a responsibility to do your own research and determine some of this for yourself. With all of the information available on the net, it shouldn't be too hard to a at least get a general understanding of a product and if it will work for you. I know I certainly do my own research even after soliciting the help from a salesman for any major purchase. After all it is MY money and business in the end...
Any salesman that is TRULY interested in helping a customer will take the time to determine if the machine fits an application, or if the customer has the tools, abilities, or circumstances to use the equipment properly. Unfortunately in this day and age salesman like this are few and far between, especially at the inside sales / counter job at your welding supply company. So i can understand frustration in not always getting good answers when asking your LWS for advise. I am a salesman at a welding supply distributor, and i hear all too often the horror stories of customers who are given bad information or are not helped in the least by other suppliers. I no one knows everything of course, but it's not too much to ask a salesman to find the answer - the salesman should be humble enough to say 'I don't know, but I'll find the answer.' If he/she is not, I wouldn't spend a dime with that person. Also, any salesman who thinks they can sell you what you need without asking questions about you needs/abilities/equipment available/budget etc... should be avoided at all costs.
On the other hand, as a business owner, or even a hobbyist - you have a responsibility to do your own research and determine some of this for yourself. With all of the information available on the net, it shouldn't be too hard to a at least get a general understanding of a product and if it will work for you. I know I certainly do my own research even after soliciting the help from a salesman for any major purchase. After all it is MY money and business in the end...
I am running an Everlast plasma cutter doing hand cut metal art. I have ran on small compressors before with luck on short cuts. On Everlast website they have recommendations for cfm and tank size. Helps a lot but I just do what Jim recommends and go as big as I can.
It's always best to build your own, especially when it comes to hitches!!!
Matt
Matt
The Powermax85 plasma cutter that we were using at ChuckE2009's shop uses about 6.7 cfm @ 90 psi when running with the 85 amp consumables. When running with the 45 amp consumables it uses 6.0 cfm @ 90 psi. On the sales brochures, on the website, in the operators manuals....this air flow requirement is clearly stated.
6.7 cfm is less air flow than a good quality air impact wrench will require. It is far less than needed for most sandblasting equipment, and pretty close to automotive paint spraying. A small die grinder will use more air than the Powermax85!
Can you run a Hypertherm plasma on any compressor? Yes. If the compressor is exactly rated for the plasma (same cfm at 90 psi), then it will run continuously if you cut continuously. If the compressor is rated at less than the rating for the plasma.....then the compressor will run, but will not keep up with the air use of the plasma.....so the plasma cutters internal safety pressure switch will shut down the plasma when the compressor output gets below a certain pressure (this varies with different plasma models)
I am not aware of any welding supply "sales people" that will deliberately deceive a buyer just to get the order for a plasma cutter. If it happens the salesman will either get canned....or get properly trained!
I had an air compressor in my shop many years before I had plasma cutters there. The compressor is a necessary tool if you are a gearhead....or do much of any work with metal fabrication. If you have been working in shops with compressors.....you know that the sound is annoying, and that waiting for air pressure to build up is a waste of time. That is why (in ChuckE's video) you hear me saying that "bigger is better". Bigger compressors don't need to run as much, better quality large compressors are quieter (run at 1/2 the RPM), and if the compressor runs less......it will last longer and generally will produce less heat, less moisture in air lines. Bigger compressors, when you figure out how much they cost to own over time (purchase price , operating cost, productivity) are far less expensive than smaller compressors in most cases.
ChuckE actually bought the larger compressor because he wanted to do a video on Carbon Arc gouging as compared to Plasma arc gouging.....the bigger compressor was needed for Carbon Arc!
Best regards, Jim Colt
6.7 cfm is less air flow than a good quality air impact wrench will require. It is far less than needed for most sandblasting equipment, and pretty close to automotive paint spraying. A small die grinder will use more air than the Powermax85!
Can you run a Hypertherm plasma on any compressor? Yes. If the compressor is exactly rated for the plasma (same cfm at 90 psi), then it will run continuously if you cut continuously. If the compressor is rated at less than the rating for the plasma.....then the compressor will run, but will not keep up with the air use of the plasma.....so the plasma cutters internal safety pressure switch will shut down the plasma when the compressor output gets below a certain pressure (this varies with different plasma models)
I am not aware of any welding supply "sales people" that will deliberately deceive a buyer just to get the order for a plasma cutter. If it happens the salesman will either get canned....or get properly trained!
I had an air compressor in my shop many years before I had plasma cutters there. The compressor is a necessary tool if you are a gearhead....or do much of any work with metal fabrication. If you have been working in shops with compressors.....you know that the sound is annoying, and that waiting for air pressure to build up is a waste of time. That is why (in ChuckE's video) you hear me saying that "bigger is better". Bigger compressors don't need to run as much, better quality large compressors are quieter (run at 1/2 the RPM), and if the compressor runs less......it will last longer and generally will produce less heat, less moisture in air lines. Bigger compressors, when you figure out how much they cost to own over time (purchase price , operating cost, productivity) are far less expensive than smaller compressors in most cases.
ChuckE actually bought the larger compressor because he wanted to do a video on Carbon Arc gouging as compared to Plasma arc gouging.....the bigger compressor was needed for Carbon Arc!
Best regards, Jim Colt
noddybrian
- noddybrian
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Weldmonger
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Posts:
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Joined:Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 pm
Thank you Jim for the clarification
I think the OP has an issue with plasma & while it's fine for him to express his views people should not be put off using or buying a plasma cutter especially if it's for light / hobby use of an intermittent nature based on air requirements - just about any compressor will work at a pinch - only limiting factor is volume of air over longer cuts but that is easily resolved by adding a tank - old compressor tank / truck brake tank / old propane tank ( list goes on ! ) anything to store enough volume so the pressure does'nt drop off too quick - I've used many undersized compressors when I've had to take a plasma out on site & never had a problem hand cutting - I often use a small cheap ( £50 from Aldi - 2.5Hp 24 liter tank ) on small amounts of cutting where there was a restriction on available power I even used a dive cylinder though that was not for very much cutting - obviously trying to use a CNC table is a bit more involved.
I think it would be perfectly OK for you to mention the new integrated compressor 30 model that Lanse demo'd recently as this for many hobbyists would be ideal & is ready to use out of the box - looked good & cut thicker than most would guess for a 30amp unit - I'm intrigued how there is room for adequate filtration & how water removal is achieved when the air will still be warm.
Air arc using a 14 cfm electric compressor ? now that should be interesting ! unless there is some new tech I've not seen - last time I used one it was 400 > 500 amps minimum power & about 45 cfm air
I think the OP has an issue with plasma & while it's fine for him to express his views people should not be put off using or buying a plasma cutter especially if it's for light / hobby use of an intermittent nature based on air requirements - just about any compressor will work at a pinch - only limiting factor is volume of air over longer cuts but that is easily resolved by adding a tank - old compressor tank / truck brake tank / old propane tank ( list goes on ! ) anything to store enough volume so the pressure does'nt drop off too quick - I've used many undersized compressors when I've had to take a plasma out on site & never had a problem hand cutting - I often use a small cheap ( £50 from Aldi - 2.5Hp 24 liter tank ) on small amounts of cutting where there was a restriction on available power I even used a dive cylinder though that was not for very much cutting - obviously trying to use a CNC table is a bit more involved.
I think it would be perfectly OK for you to mention the new integrated compressor 30 model that Lanse demo'd recently as this for many hobbyists would be ideal & is ready to use out of the box - looked good & cut thicker than most would guess for a 30amp unit - I'm intrigued how there is room for adequate filtration & how water removal is achieved when the air will still be warm.
Air arc using a 14 cfm electric compressor ? now that should be interesting ! unless there is some new tech I've not seen - last time I used one it was 400 > 500 amps minimum power & about 45 cfm air