[Simclardy]

Im in the market for a new tig/ stick welder.
My steel beam project has exposed the weakness of my stick welder. I have an Everlast 250EX that is great for TIG welding but not so good for stick welding. My multimatic 215 works better than the Everlast for stick welding but it only has an open circuit voltage of less than 50 volts. I've always wanted a dynasty 280 DX and the Miller rep said it would run the stick 6010 no problem. Is there another machine or brand that I should be looking at? There are a lot of reviews I've seen but not too many of them compare the actual stability and quality of the arc.
When I get a chance I will try and post some pictures of the waveform with my benchtop oscilloscope on the Everlast and the multimatic.
Thanks

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[Oscar]

I can run 6010 all day long with several of my machines. 3 to be exact. All of which I have hand amptrols for instantaneous amperage adjustment on-the-fly if I need it.

[LtBadd]

I think what Oscar is trying to say is, HTP makes a good machine.

[Simclardy]

I think what Oscar is trying to say is, HTP makes a good machine.

you might be onto something.

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[Simclardy]

I can run 6010 all day long with several of my machines. 3 to be exact. All of which I have hand amptrols for instantaneous amperage adjustment on-the-fly if I need it.

I know you don't like your htp................. you love your htp. Which one should i look at as the closest competitor to the dynasty 280dx? I can't find an htp website? The biggest machine i see is the invertig221?
Have you used the dynasty?

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[cj737]

Their 221 is their top flight machine and is very good. It’s closer in price to the Dynasty 210 and amperage, but has a few more features “stock”. The Dynasty 280 is an absolute killer machine too. I’ve never known anyone to disparage it. There are other machines that are also very good, but hard to argue anything “better” than a Dynasty. But you’ll pay for that.

[LtBadd]

I can't find an htp website?

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Usaweld.com

[Simclardy]

I can't find an htp website?

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Usaweld.com

Thanks

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[Oscar]

I can run 6010 all day long with several of my machines. 3 to be exact. All of which I have hand amptrols for instantaneous amperage adjustment on-the-fly if I need it.

I know you don't like your htp................. you love your htp. Which one should i look at as the closest competitor to the dynasty 280dx? I can't find an htp website? The biggest machine i see is the invertig221?
Have you used the dynasty?

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I have not had the pleasure of welding with a Dynasty. The 280dx is almost in a class of it's own. The HTP 221 is a much smaller machine, but the new Invertig 400 AC/DC machine will be a beast, competing with the Dynasty 400, but will likely cost no where near as much (crossing my fingers!). It is based off of the Stel Tig uP 453H S AC-DC.

[Simclardy]

I can run 6010 all day long with several of my machines. 3 to be exact. All of which I have hand amptrols for instantaneous amperage adjustment on-the-fly if I need it.

I know you don't like your htp................. you love your htp. Which one should i look at as the closest competitor to the dynasty 280dx? I can't find an htp website? The biggest machine i see is the invertig221?
Have you used the dynasty?

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I have not had the pleasure of welding with a Dynasty. The 280dx is almost in a class of it's own. The HTP 221 is a much smaller machine, but the new Invertig 400 AC/DC machine will be a beast, competing with the Dynasty 400, but will likely cost no where near as much (crossing my fingers!). It is based off of the Stel Tig uP 453H S AC-DC.

So i have been on the phone with miller. They sell refurbished units at a discount with a 2 year warranty. My supplier quoted $5k. This is down from 6400. But cyberweld has it new for 5400. Go figure. I have seen it used occasionally as low as $4k. If i can get a factory warranty on a refurb. For 4.5k i think i would do it. I won't disparage the price because if i built welders i would want more. But i hate when companies limit software and you can pay an arm and a leg to "upgrade" like the asymmetric option.
I am definitely warning up to the idea of buying the htp. I am still stuck on the excellent customer service i get from miller. It shows dedication to their product that frankly is becoming rare, so i would like to support that.


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[BillE.Dee]

I have not yet used a HTP machine and I don't have any idea where Oscar purchases his machines, BUT, I just had an experience with usaweld over an item that I purchased from them. GREAT service, GREAT people on the phone. THEY WILL get the opportunity when I am in need.

[Oscar]

That's exactly where I bought my machines. There a few dealers scattered throughout the country, but you won't see them advertise much. More like locally owned "franchises". HTP America is USA Weld. I dont know why the website isnt just called "htpamerica.com" though, maybe because they want the word "weld" in the website name so it has a better chance of coming up in search results?

[Simclardy]

Ok, how about the fronius magicwave 230i?
Looks like a solid machine. I have used their solar inverters and they are good to deal with on that end for warranty.
Not much info on their website and i doubt my lws can help. I watched some you tube videos with high regards.



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[LtBadd]

Ok, how about the fronius magicwave 230i?

Not much info on their website and i doubt my lws can help.
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I was surprised at this as well

[Radishfever]

Fronius appears to have excellent marketing of their product but actual Dealers might be spread further geographically than Miller. If I was in your shoes I would want to test drive a Fronius before spending money on a used Miller. And that Invertig 221 looks like a real winner for its class. If anything happens to my AHP then I'm buying the Invertig 221 next and would never look back. But as of now HTP have not released a bigger machine to compete with the big Dynasty's.

If I had $5,000 grand for a TIG welder, Fronius would be my first test drive and HTP my second.

Was just thinking more about Fronius marketing. It seems like they had a major marketing push and then things got quite. Just random babble here, could be they are selling more to industry and trying to get market foot hold. This could be the reason why money is not being spent on their website or dealer locations. Maybe they do not have the capital yet? Could be that if you want this latest technology, that you the customer needs to find them and pursue it that way.

[LtBadd]

But as of now HTP have not released a bigger machine to compete with the big Dynasty's.

If I had $5,000 grand for a TIG welder, Fronius would be my first test drive and HTP my second.

Was just thinking more about Fronius marketing. It seems like they had a major marketing push and then things got quite.

They've been advertising on Instagram, and some YT'ers are sporting them as well as Roy Crumrine. Perhaps they are providing those guys a deal, I don't know but they are getting good exposure

Oscar recently said HTP is getting ready to release an Invertig 400

[Radishfever]

I agree. Just meant it’s not in full circulation as of yet.

One thing is for sure. Miller has competition in the “kitchen”.

HTP and Fronius seem to be on the cutting edge and obviously have the consumers attention. We are all lucky to have choices so good.




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[Simclardy]

So i reached out to fronius and got a spec sheet. To summarize, the
invertig 221
duty cycle
20% @ 220 amps
60% @ 165 amps
100% @ 145 amps

The magicwave
Duty at 104°f.
35%A230
60% A195
100%A165A

Dynasty 210dx
60%A210
100%175

I believe the invertig and magic wave comes with asymmetric current standards and the miller is an add on.

Miller kills it with duty cycle.
I know oscar had a 211 board fry, but i have to say my mm215 was a champ on the steel beam project. After welding the flanges I ran 14+ rods with 5/32 7018 @ 180-170 amps non stop on the splice plate.
The machine was in direct sunlight, but outside with plenty of space to breath. Temps around 70°f


I wish the miller hit that 220-230 amp setting. I sometimes pulse at 220 on ss.

I would love love love to scope those 3 machines.
Cheers



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[Radishfever]

I thought you were looking for a 280 amp class machine or bigger.

How much is the 230 amp Magic Wave selling for. And does the price include a pedal and torch.

Miller is probably spectacular but you are paying $1,500 more than HTP in the 200 amp class. You can buy a nice cart, cylinder and hood with the savings. And you get good support.


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[Simclardy]

I thought you were looking for a 280 amp class machine or bigger.

How much is the 230 amp Magic Wave selling for. And does the price include a pedal and torch.

Miller is probably spectacular but you are paying $1,500 more than HTP in the 200 amp class. You can buy a nice cart, cylinder and hood with the savings. And you get good support.


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The magicwave 230i without water cooler is 4708. It comes with a fancy torch but no foot pedal:(

I would go for a dynasty 280dx if a used one popped up. But after much searching the best i could find was 5k+. The other thing is i can get a good refurbished 210dx for 3400 with 2 year factory warranty.
I already have all accessories. Ck worldwide torch, lincoln 3350 helmet, and 5 tanks, with all kinds of regulators.
The htp would save me 900.



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[Radishfever]

Well you are obviously on a higher level of need and experience than me. That Magic Wave appears to be very expensive for the amp class. Buying a used Dynasty does not sound exciting or give me a warm feeling. Buying a new Dynasty 280 would be my approach. If you can raise your budget $1,000 for a total of $6,000 you can have the 280DX. Or wait till HTP has their bigger GTAW for sale at USA Welds.

If you have a relationship, with whoever you are going to buy the used welder from, that feels solid enough to get good service later, then get a used one. But if you have no Miller connections and no local service then take that into account.

You got the skills to have what ever machine it requires and luckily there have never been so many good choices. If you are making money doing this then do not hold back. A good machine will make you more income.

One observation. You are deciding between 200 amp class machines and 280 amp class machines. You will kick yourself in the behind if you under buy a premium welder. Wait until you know what amp class you really need. Then buy the best machine with the best customer service. It's that easy if you are getting paid. You should be charging your clients at least $100 an hour and marking materials up.

[cj737]

Buying a used Dynasty does not sound exciting or give me a warm feeling. Buying a new Dynasty 280 would be my approach.

A refurbished Dynasty with a 2 year factory warranty is a very good approach. And you can locate Miller Warranty centers all over the US.

I bought a used 200dx 10 years ago (power unit only) that I had no ability to test- just took a chance. It ran me $400 to have it fully serviced and a resistor replaced on the PMU. When I got it powered up, it had 900 hours on it. Today, after a $500 purchase price (used) and $400 in one-time repair, it has over 2300 hours. Machine was fab'ed in 2005 per the serial number.

No disrespect to other brands, but if a Dynasty were in my consideration, it would be on top and others would have to really persuade me to displace it.

[Simclardy]

Well you are obviously on a higher level of need and experience than me. That Magic Wave appears to be very expensive for the amp class. Buying a used Dynasty does not sound exciting or give me a warm feeling. Buying a new Dynasty 280 would be my approach. If you can raise your budget $1,000 for a total of $6,000 you can have the 280DX. Or wait till HTP has their bigger GTAW for sale at USA Welds.

If you have a relationship, with whoever you are going to buy the used welder from, that feels solid enough to get good service later, then get a used one. But if you have no Miller connections and no local service then take that into account.

You got the skills to have what ever machine it requires and luckily there have never been so many good choices. If you are making money doing this then do not hold back. A good machine will make you more income.

The refurbish, as explained to me, are typically floor models, or units that go to skills usa. They come back and are fully bench tested and then get the 2 year warranty. Call me odd but i almost prefer a factory refurbish. If done right it can go through more exacting standards than a new unit do to the individualized attention the unit gets. I have heard this is true of car transmissions (done properly)

As for making money with the welder. That's the problem, i don't do this for a living. 6k is just too much for what i do.
If the right project came along it would be a no brainer. Maybe the best thing is to wait a bit.

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[Radishfever]

Meant zero disrespect to Miller. Just needed more info on the “Used” part.

If it was up to me there would be a brand new Dynasty 400 with a 20 series torch and a water cooler on my cart.

Now that the background info on “used” means Skills USA contest and then to customer it sounds much warmer. Much warmer than “Used” from some dank basement.

One thought, living on Cape Cod is prime for aluminum welding because of being coastal? You might want to skip the 200 amp class and just buy a big boy. Used or otherwise.

I have never been inside a welding store and have no idea how repairs work on GTAW machines. Zero experience.


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[Oscar]

I know oscar had a 211 board fry, but i have to say my mm215 was a champ on the steel beam project. After welding the flanges I ran 14+ rods with 5/32 7018 @ 180-170 amps non stop on the splice plate.
The machine was in direct sunlight, but outside with plenty of space to breath. Temps around 70°f


I wish the miller hit that 220-230 amp setting. I sometimes pulse at 220 on ss.

I would love love love to scope those 3 machines.
Cheers
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I ran mine full-output on the 3/8" C25 synergic setting well past the duty cycle, last June when it was already over 100°F on a daily basis, so yea that was mostly just me being careless. 180A is a full 50A less and a lot less stress on the machine especially on a 70°F day. So I guess those additional lower-temp duty cycle ratings on the HTP machines do make some sense after all, eh?


Also note, that the Miller Dynasty 210dx duty cycle spec does not specify a temperature in the owner's manuals that I've seen. It only lists a temperature operating "range", but nothing specific to the actual duty cycle spec number. It could very well be that the listed duty cycle (60% @ 210A) is at a temperature much lower than 104°F.