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7018 storage

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Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:27 pm

hello ,

great boxes you have there, I never seen of that sort,

I did exchange with a formula engineer from a well known electrode maker (selectarc, I am in France)

He told me that 7018 type accept to be cooked at 662 F for 30 hours , that mean about 15 cookings without degradation.

but also, if they took a little humidity but you do non critical weld , a gentle drying can be done as one hour at 212 F

adding small pouches of sillicate is a good solution (it keep air moisture at approx 16% humidity , it is really low) BUT ,

one need to buy sillicate bags with colored crystals , that shows you the crystals did take their maximum moisture (about half their weight) and need to be cooked (along with electrodes could be an option I think)
If not , you do not know when the bag is full of moisture and if the electrodes touch it they will get moisture , somewhat counterproductive indeed

another information I did obtain, is that all the 'all positions including descending' electrodes, contain a good percentage of cellulose in the coating (even some 6013 or 6012 )
they can be gently dried if necessary but the cellulose is degraded at about 600 F your electrodes will not burn with a good gaz shield then.

cellulose, mean a paste, or wood flour, or may be paper (I did read that on Lincoln web site)

when it burns it generate hydrogen so obviously you will have zero cellulose in the low hydrogen rods .

Best regards from France, I hope you did get some info ;)

Here is a cooking drying table but all in French with celsius temp.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GjQD ... sp=sharing

you can see that some electrodes get 3 times less heat than the low hydrogen or some stainless types,

and that a stronger cooking can be applied when welding stainless steel with 6013 or 'acid' electrodes (widely used here in mixed types as cellulosic and acid, or low hydrogen and acid)

so one need to be sure he is not using electrodes all positions then, as the proposed heat is about 480- 572F for one hour.
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Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:34 pm

doubl
Last edited by olek on Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
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Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:34 pm

olek wrote:Hi I just did have an idea

If you use silicate bags with no colour test, you simply need a good balance.

A bag that weight 10g when dry will be about 14 g when saturated.

I suggest this can be precise enough to know when to cook the bags.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
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Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:04 pm

tested my idea , it works perfectlty


https://goo.gl/photos/aDyS6b4AeoyXy6GX9

unused bags 10,6g

moderate 11,4 g


stored in a bag that had some holes , 12,4 g


I will pursue the survey, when saturated the bag should weight approx 15 g
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
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Re: 7018 storage

Postby Bill Beauregard » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:17 pm

Bob Moffat, (weld.com) did a great demonstration. He took fresh 7018 (3/16") and 6010 (1/8" because he could run them at the same amperage. Side by side, he ran a bead on two identical 1/4" thick coupons. Still hot, he power wire brushed them, and dropped them both in mineral oil.

The 7018 sample did nothing. the 6010 sample looked like it was in champaign! The bubbles are hydrogen. Hydrogen migrates within hot weld until it either gasses off into the atmosphere, or hits solid steel. It forms a division between hot metal, and cooler. Cracking can sometimes begin there.
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Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:28 am

I did notice there are plastic cans intended to store the electrodes immediately when they go out of the oven.

Not all containers can accept the huge temperature. Plus they are 45 cm tall and you can store 7 Kg of electrodes sealed in those. (May be TIG electrodes too) They are not very expensive ( I have seen others that where proposed 70€ each :( )
http://www.france-soudage.fr/soudure/Et ... rodes.html

Here are the good ones : Coming from a French welder maker, GYS . Certainly some of similar kind are available in USA
http://www.comptoirdespros.com/equipeme ... AnZF8P8HAQ

BTW if you use sillicagel, they can be dried again and again but NOT with the electrodes as high temperature degrades them ( I don't know how much but pouches opened and the halls get tacky after I did a fast dry cycle for 7018 at about 392 deg.Fahrenheit ( 200 C )

To recycle the bags , 3 hours in an oven at 65 deg Celsius, (147 F) a very low temperature. Microwave can be used toon but I don't know how exactly. I recall it can be somewhat violent and it takes some time anyway.

Those protective boxes should be necessary, as , when warm, the electrodes will attract air moisture fast.
The max temp allowed is not the one immediately after cooking but around 110 120 degree Celsius. (230 F)

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
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Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:03 pm

Olivero wrote:Its per code you need to keep them in an oven, structural code I believe.

Since you are not doing structural code type work, you don't have to worry about it. That's where it comes from.

Any effort you make to keep them dry and such is not going to hurt them, it will only make it better. I have heard that when the can is opened its pretty much over and they start to absorb moisture. I guess the flux is rater hydroscopic so its bound to happen but by keeping them really hot in the oven, you make them low hydrogen again; which is what is required by code.

Home hobby use, don't even worry about it.


Yes its coating is much hygroscopic, so keeping them in a very dry place is better, it may allow a fast drying if you notice poorsities or too much projections, but remember the coatings evolve , see that article from Lincoln, you have 7018 with R prefix that are possibly using ptfe in the binder, (about 20-25%) which protect them from somehow from humidity, you may also find 7816 electrodes that are considered low hydrogen and do not necessitate cooking,

I agree that for non coded weld this is not very important but only as long as the electrodes are working fine

anyway I have an oven at the shop so I can dry electrodes and the silicate bags ;)

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... ghYt3Qlq2Q
Last edited by olek on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
olek
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Posts: 189
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Location: France

Re: 7018 storage

Postby olek » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:28 pm

something I just realized is that when cellulose is included in a rod, that one will be degraded soon when cooking at high temp - about 450F for paper to auto ignite (and I did read that some paper was used for some Lincoln electrodes )


So with all "all positions including descending" electrodes, (that may contain some cellulose in their coating) only a gentle drying may be done if necessary

(I was given a 300 Celcius maximum, but this is more 450F- 250 Celcius )

What I meant is that I did do wrong when drying some nickel based electrodes that where good for descending .

The maker of those rods told me that this mean that there is a good percentage of cellulose in that graphite based coating

I heated them too much and the coating was impacted, then the arc is not as stable it should be
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

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