Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects
Brettmm92
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I'm using my "welding bible" as a reference on this one.

Basically it says welding stringers are easier to lay down and CAN be as strong as weave beads. Weaves being done correctly, the bead should not exceed more than two times the rod diameter.

After reading that, for tests during school I would do stringers as they were easier to control. Instead of doing a decent weave, I made great stringers since it was easier
I wish I could do things for the second time, the first time.
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Brettmm92 wrote:I'm using my "welding bible" as a reference on this one.

Basically it says welding stringers are easier to lay down and CAN be as strong as weave beads. Weaves being done correctly, the bead should not exceed more than two times the rod diameter.

After reading that, for tests during school I would do stringers as they were easier to control. Instead of doing a decent weave, I made great stringers since it was easier
Proof once again that no two welders do it quite the same. I find a weave easier, and have worked jobs where a pipe cap could be four rod diameters wide, or 1/2" for a 1/8" rod. I think I find the weave easier because my hands tend to shake slightly (have for many years, perhaps from a head injury combined with too many years of alcohol...), and when I weave, I give the shake a natural path to follow and wind up with much more consistent beads. When I have to do stringers, the shaking is a bit more random, and I get an inconsistent depth of fill.

I knew a woman who welded for Plass that could lay dead-perfect stringers 10-wide on 24" code steam pipe. I envied that steadiness. She was also the only person who smelled good on the elevator...

Steve
Farmwelding
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Yeah I'm like Steve my stringers are crap especially compared to my weaves-weaves aren't perfect but still

It seems to be a lot more forgiving in every regard-shakiness included.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
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Nick
PeteM
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Otto Nobedder wrote: I think I find the weave easier because my hands tend to shake slightly

I knew a woman who welded for Plass that could lay dead-perfect stringers 10-wide on 24" code steam pipe. I envied that steadiness. She was also the only person who smelled good on the elevator...

Steve
Of any number of things it could be, one likelihood is manganism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganism

Also, I'd heard (some studies in psych courses I took) that women generally have better fine motor skill and articulation. I taught my niece to weld, and she picked it up very quickly and demonstrated a great deal of skill (running 3G in a couple of hours, and overhead in a similar time frame). In production she did great too, but has given it up for a while to raise her kids.
Farmwelding
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I took the 3g test with the wrong plates last night(they were a little short) but they fit into the bender and I passed flawlessly on the root and had just a speck of porosity on the face on one of my restarts. Before I burned 7018, I thought I was never going to be able to stick weld because I sucked, but after passing 1 2g and 3g bend test in about 24 hours total practice time and test time, I think I have a shot at getting good at stick after a good bit of practice which will be all the time. I am kind of sad that yesterday was the last day because I was looking forward to overhead. :cry:

Now a question: The other students who are actually taking the class and there more than me said either 3g or 4g was harder. There was no concesus. Is there one that is harder, or is it per person? Is there one that requires more skill?
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
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Nick
PeteM
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Its person to person. Once you have a good bit of time on the metal, get comfortable with a good setting and get used to the actual motion- they're pretty much all the same. You can't get complacent (not that you would) and assume that the weld will make itself, but it does get easier.

Just don't get too into what you're listening to on the I pod and use the stinger to crash the cymbal. That makes a mess. :lol:
Farmwelding
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PeteM wrote:Its person to person. Once you have a good bit of time on the metal, get comfortable with a good setting and get used to the actual motion- they're pretty much all the same. You can't get complacent (not that you would) and assume that the weld will make itself, but it does get easier.

Just don't get too into what you're listening to on the I pod and use the stinger to crash the cymbal. That makes a mess. :lol:
Yeah I hear you on that. I will rarely listen to music when I weld. Usually tig welding since it usual is a little quieter at least for DC. And I try to wear ear plugs to and even without ear plugs I don't need any more noise. Although it would be pretty funny to watch somebody do a nice cymbal crash.

And I know never to get to comfortable running something. That's when undercut, slag inclusions, and all the other fun stuff happens.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
olek
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Otto Nobedder wrote:
Brettmm92 wrote:I'm using my "welding bible" as a reference on this one.

Basically it says welding stringers are easier to lay down and CAN be as strong as weave beads. Weaves being done correctly, the bead should not exceed more than two times the rod diameter.

After reading that, for tests during school I would do stringers as they were easier to control. Instead of doing a decent weave, I made great stringers since it was easier
Proof once again that no two welders do it quite the same. I find a weave easier, and have worked jobs where a pipe cap could be four rod diameters wide, or 1/2" for a 1/8" rod. I think I find the weave easier because my hands tend to shake slightly (have for many years, perhaps from a head injury combined with too many years of alcohol...), and when I weave, I give the shake a natural path to follow and wind up with much more consistent beads. When I have to do stringers, the shaking is a bit more random, and I get an inconsistent depth of fill.

I knew a woman who welded for Plass that could lay dead-perfect stringers 10-wide on 24" code steam pipe. I envied that steadiness. She was also the only person who smelled good on the elevator...

Steve

I agree that any small repetitive motion helps (me) to keep the arm forearm etc relax. For whatever reason.

Now anyway I want the puddle to tell me if I need to accelerste or slow, if the angle need to be corrected, so moving relax butg not managing the puddle at the same time is probably not the way to go.

I noticed that I obtained the best "cooking" when making small circles (2 rod thickness diameter)
The covering just goes out immediately. I wish I can obtain the same with stringers
.
So small circles mean less heat (but well distributed) .? That is why I was said these are better used on thin materials...

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
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olek
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4G SHOULD be harder .
My friend who welded pipes some time ago say 3g is "easy" because we are guided (making beads or stingers vertical on a flat surface is more difficult, while with a corner or a 60 deg angle the walls are used to mount the beads.)

@farmwelding, if you may want to keep some "bible" all the guides and posters on the Lincoln web site can be obtained "free" just pass an "order" for what you'd like to receive ( very good pocket guides for different processes all those can be downloaded too)

here you can download the 'stick welding guide' it is a really good reference. If you do not have it yet ..http://lincolnelectric.com/assets/globa ... /c2410.pdf
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Poland308
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Farmwelding wrote: Now a question: The other students who are actually taking the class and there more than me said either 3g or 4g was harder. There was no concesus. Is there one that is harder, or is it per person? Is there one that requires more skill?
Pipe 6G small bore 2 inch sch 40 open root 6010. 7018 cap stringers only.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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Otto Nobedder wrote:A "stringer" lets you oscillate the thickness of the rod. For a 1/8" rod you can "weave" 1/8" and still call it a stringer.

Steve
Can you please tell me what mean the guy in that 7018 text from Lincoln where he state :
"When welding the second pass, use a weaving motion or stringer technique. If you opt to weave, think of the number 8 sideways and move from left to right. Also, pay close attention to the bead width when using the weaving technique. Try to keep it at ¾" or smaller for the maximum width overall after multiple passes. For the stringer motion, create the letter “I” and follow in a straight motion "

(That mean a stringer then another next to it ? It is not a "ladder" )
As I don't know the direction of the weld, I thought that for the 8 this is a normal 8 may be a little pinched that goes from left to right recovering itself (?)

Thanks if you have a little time for that. I do not get well the restart explanations, too (I do not understand what is particular in his description of restarts)

http://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/supp ... egory.aspx

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
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olek
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Farmwelding wrote:
PeteM wrote:Its person to person. Once you have a good bit of time on the metal, get comfortable with a good setting and get used to the actual motion- they're pretty much all the same. You can't get complacent (not that you would) and assume that the weld will make itself, but it does get easier.

Just don't get too into what you're listening to on the I pod and use the stinger to crash the cymbal. That makes a mess. :lol:
Yeah I hear you on that. I will rarely listen to music when I weld. Usually tig welding since it usual is a little quieter at least for DC. And I try to wear ear plugs to and even without ear plugs I don't need any more noise. Although it would be pretty funny to watch somebody do a nice cymbal crash.

And I know never to get to comfortable running something. That's when undercut, slag inclusions, and all the other fun stuff happens.
Farm weld, I may admit I have no idea of the type of training you did attend. Was in a welding school, a "camp" ?
(Just curious)
As I was stressing too much at the beginning I used to listen to music I like , could be salsa, reggae, rock, it helped me to move more supple. I stopped after a while and concentrated more on the sound of the weld and welder machine.

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Farmwelding
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Well next year I'll be a senior in high school but this last year and next year I got/get to take classes at my local tech school, but in this instance I was not taking an actual welding class the last semester because of a dumb pointless class...either way a welding instructor that teaches there came down with a box of 3/32" 7018s that were crap we found out but I saw him a week later and told him and he said to come up and he'd show me some stuff and then threw me into the fire...literally and figuratively. So it was a lucky shot that I happened to see him and he liked me and I can at least make it seem like I know what I'm talking about
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
Poland308
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IMG_0132.JPG
IMG_0132.JPG (53.3 KiB) Viewed 2762 times
This is an example of stringers.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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Thanks, Farmwelding, you have been lucky I suppose it is normal sometime ;) best of luck for the next year .!

The stringer : no manipulation or very little there ? Is the upper weld 3 times the diameter of the rod.

No way to test those types with penetrating dye I suppose. ?

What 'tricks' are possible to repair or correct undercut ? Farmwelding seem to say something about...

Thank you
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Poland308
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It's an odd picture angle. Those were welded with 3/32 7018 and the bead is about 1/4 wide.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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Poland308 wrote:It's an odd picture angle. Those were welded with 3/32 7018 and the bead is about 1/4 wide.
I was not far it is almost 3 times no ?

Did you do that by dragging very slowly and straight around, or with a very small weaving ? That is about how much Amp ?

For the short arc I am at it from the start, I think I even had too short an arc with the 6013 sometime Wich make the puddle touch the rid then may be try to pass behind or make inclusions.

I prefer 7018 . Now is it possible to have a too short angle ? Is gas shield insufficient then ? Sorry for the many detailed questions , I weld "in my head ": before going real ;)
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Poland308
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Yes you guessed close on the size, those were made with almost no manipulation. Mostly a drag angle but some changes to a 90 deg angle and then a push as I go around. I've only run about 10 lbs of 6013 but I noticed its possible to get slag inclusions. It's also possible to get that with 7018 but my experience with that is that it was from weaving too far or too fast. The gas shielding with stick happens right at the point that the flux burns off. It only creates a small pocket of gas hence the need to keep your manipulation small or weave at a slower rate. You can make wide weaves over 3/4 of an inch wide even with 3/32 rod you just need to weave slower.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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Thanks Josh those are great details, they help a lot ;)

I was not expecting you could go 90 and even more to push while keeping the weld free of slag . You still touch the base l'étal when pushing ? (At 90 I guess no)

I will look at the puddle plus the gas shield together I think . You see the gas shield moving the surface of the puddle (7018) or is it only the metal "cooking" as we can see under with 6013 ?.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Poland308
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What your seeing is probably the slag as it mover across the puddle and starts to form. There's a little bit of an art to seeing the slag and yet seeing what the puddle looks like underneath that.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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Poland308 wrote:What your seeing is probably the slag as it mover across the puddle and starts to form. There's a little bit of an art to seeing the slag and yet seeing what the puddle looks like underneath that.
I get it ! "A bit of an art ;)" I trust you ..

And
I was not expecting you could go 90 and even more to push while keeping the weld free of slag . You still touch the base metal when pushing ? (At 90 I guess no)
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Poland308
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Maybe I don't touch when the rod angle is 90, I don't pay much attention to it. I'm focused on keeping the arc close while watching the puddle and trying to keep an eye on the edges.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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Poland308 wrote:Maybe I don't touch when the rod angle is 90, I don't pay much attention to it. I'm focused on keeping the arc close while watching the puddle and trying to keep an eye on the edges.
Anyway, touching/dragging is something when there is no weld , after that the weld you touch tend to melt soon I understand that as you say the priority is to watch and control the puddle ( and seen if trouble occur with the edges at the same time, as you say this is quite of art - you did not say but I am sure you agree ;) )

When I made my exercice this afternoon touching the left and the right side made undercut for the left and not for the right, at some point ( I was weaving smiles)

Could it be that simply the right side had more metal under it so it accepted the 110A without trouble, while the less large left side I should have stay less long on this edge ?
I did not find it too easy to be certain I was oriented on the bissectrice of the angle but I tried to sit well in front, and balanced the whole arm so to keep the same position left and right, so I do not understand.

Plus I did see the undercut, but moving up for the next bead have to be done so quick I was short of reflexes ;)

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
Poland308
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Yes if you have differing thicknesses that will have an effect. You can aim your rod more towards the thicker side to compensate a little.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
olek
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I am doing exercices on a cross shaped block.

Good results, nicer beads, more eveness, slag falling, better straightness, longer but tense arc.

Making again and again the same gesture is good at any point in beginners training I think. I did that yet 2 months ago, doing again show differences that is really helpful

Someone just told me it is unnecessary to make manipulations, that for better learning of reflexes gesture stringers where more useful.

He also tell me to enlarge the arc if I want a 2 electrode size puddle.

I think he may be right for the stringers, but enlarging the arc?

I was just capable lately of enlarging the arc a little and got better beads with 6013 ( I did weld with a buzz box the first month , and took the habit of a very short arc with it ).

But I use very small z to get to the size I want.

I thought that the inclination should allow to manage the puddle size if no z motion is used

What do you think ? MAya be thinner beads but perfection in regularity is first necessity before working out the Z motion ?

May be I should only wait more at the start so to have a larger puddle to move ?

Are you changing electrode inclination "on the go" eventually without noticing, to keep the puddle shape ?

Thanks for your thoughts.

I know theory do not make proper gesture training but at this point it helped me to analyze my beads. Hence all the questions.
Last edited by olek on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
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