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Fine Setting

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Re: Fine Setting

Postby MinnesotaDave » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:10 pm

olek wrote:I am curious , on many inverters, the voltage have no regulation or display.

But , is not the arc force function raising the voltage ? The "dig" function have a role or is it only when amp go low ?

Regards


Dig or arc force raises the amperage when the machine senses the voltage getting low - which means your arc length is getting shorter because you moved the rod in closer.

Google pictures of this from Lincoln and Miller and you'll see an amp chart that shows this increase.
Dave J.

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Re: Fine Setting

Postby olek » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:17 pm

MinnesotaDave wrote:
olek wrote:I am curious , on many inverters, the voltage have no regulation or display.

But , is not the arc force function raising the voltage ? The "dig" function have a role or is it only when amp go low ?

Regards


Dig or arc force raises the amperage when the machine senses the voltage getting low - which means your arc length is getting shorter because you moved the rod in closer.

Google pictures of this from Lincoln and Miller and you'll see an amp chart that shows this increase.


Thanks I will check. I think I did understand from a sketch for my welder, that voltage is raised a fixed amount together with amp, or the opposite, amp a certain amount and voltage more or less ) . I may have misunderstood

They say the arc is more "tense" or rigid when arc force is high .
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby ttreb4 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:34 pm

MinnesotaDave wrote:
ttreb4 wrote:I have a Miller Bobcat 225G. I have watched fieldRes youtube video explaining the amperage/voltage. I understand that he is using the Lincoln SA. Is the Bobcat the same in that the fine dial is adjusting voltage and not amperage? I would be better off running the large adjustment nob at the top end of the range and then running a lower fine setting to reduce the amount of voltage in the weld?


It's a combination.
To get the same amperage, a low coarse setting lets you be in the upper part of the fine range. Higher arc voltage.
For the same amperage while using a higher coarse setting you'll be in the lower part of the fine range. Lower arc voltage.

High arc voltage is great for 7018 in my opinion.
Lower arc voltage is often considered desirable for 6010 vertical up.

I tend to set amps with a low coarse, high fine, because I like high arc voltage - others may differ.

My bobcat 225nt works good with the fine in the upper half of the fine range, as Steve noted.



Thanks, I have been running it with a lower coarse setting and higher fine setting and I have been running 1/8 7018. My problem is when running vertical up my slag tends to run a lot and i'm getting a lot of undercut on the sides. If i try and hold my toes a little longer then it seems to get worse as my puddle doesn't seem to solidify. I was going to try the higher coarse setting and turn down my fine setting and see if that doesn't work better.
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby olek » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:22 pm

hello.

here are the graphs I had from my provider

seem like arc force add a given fixed number of volts, but also more or less amp depending of the regulation

Please can you tell me if I read that correctly ?

Thank you, sorry for the OT (not totally)
Attachments
hotstart&arcforce.jpg
graph hot start and arc force
hotstart&arcforce.jpg (28.51 KiB) Viewed 109 times
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of gas regulation
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:05 am

olek wrote:hello.

here are the graphs I had from my provider

seem like arc force add a given fixed number of volts, but also more or less amp depending of the regulation

Please can you tell me if I read that correctly ?

Thank you, sorry for the OT (not totally)


You are not reading the graph correctly.

Volts (V) are the vertical, current (amps) are the horizontal.

As volts goes down (arc length decrease), amps increases (goes to the right).
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

Airco 300 - Syncro 350
Invertec v250-s
Thermal Arc 161 and 300
MM210
Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:13 am

ttreb4 wrote:
MinnesotaDave wrote:
ttreb4 wrote:I have a Miller Bobcat 225G. I have watched fieldRes youtube video explaining the amperage/voltage. I understand that he is using the Lincoln SA. Is the Bobcat the same in that the fine dial is adjusting voltage and not amperage? I would be better off running the large adjustment nob at the top end of the range and then running a lower fine setting to reduce the amount of voltage in the weld?


It's a combination.
To get the same amperage, a low coarse setting lets you be in the upper part of the fine range. Higher arc voltage.
For the same amperage while using a higher coarse setting you'll be in the lower part of the fine range. Lower arc voltage.

High arc voltage is great for 7018 in my opinion.
Lower arc voltage is often considered desirable for 6010 vertical up.

I tend to set amps with a low coarse, high fine, because I like high arc voltage - others may differ.

My bobcat 225nt works good with the fine in the upper half of the fine range, as Steve noted.



Thanks, I have been running it with a lower coarse setting and higher fine setting and I have been running 1/8 7018. My problem is when running vertical up my slag tends to run a lot and i'm getting a lot of undercut on the sides. If i try and hold my toes a little longer then it seems to get worse as my puddle doesn't seem to solidify. I was going to try the higher coarse setting and turn down my fine setting and see if that doesn't work better.


Slag running is normal, just don't spill the puddle. When done the slag often looks just terrible vertical up - looks like random drips.

Undercut vertical can be caused by several things. Pointing the rod up instead of 90 degrees to the plate can be one.

Reducing amps a little can help. When running a 3/32" 7018 I may lower it to 80 amps if undercut is a problem vertical up.

In other situations I run that rod as high as 100 amps.

Travel speed is critical, too slow or too fast are both a problem. As the toes wet in continue at a steady pace while watching to ensure they are continuing to fill.
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

Airco 300 - Syncro 350
Invertec v250-s
Thermal Arc 161 and 300
MM210
Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby noddybrian » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:21 am

I would say that running higher arc voltages gives easier starts & less sticking which is great most of the time - it does though tend to give a wider more fluid puddle which on vertical makes things harder - not saying it can't be done but requires more skill - on the old " Petbow " sets here where amps & volts are separate controls there is an area that can be used without keep altering settings that has enough volts for ease of use yet not so high it challenges too much on vertical - not sure what your sets will do but these things would go up to about 120volts set at max & that's way high for normal use - it took a while to get a setting dialed in without a remote - it was always fun watching new guys change rods once someone turned the volts to max !
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby olek » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:49 am

MinnesotaDave wrote:
olek wrote:hello.

here are the graphs I had from my provider

seem like arc force add a given fixed number of volts, but also more or less amp depending of the regulation

Please can you tell me if I read that correctly ?

Thank you, sorry for the OT (not totally)


You are not reading the graph correctly.

Volts (V) are the vertical, current (amps) are the horizontal.

As volts goes down (arc length decrease), amps increases (goes to the right).




Thank you, so arc force make it impossible to go to 0V (shortage ?) but, when arc force begins, it add some volts or only amps (?)
on the hot start sketch amp and V are inverted
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of gas regulation
olek
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Location: France

Re: Fine Setting

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:37 am

olek wrote:
MinnesotaDave wrote:
olek wrote:hello.

here are the graphs I had from my provider

seem like arc force add a given fixed number of volts, but also more or less amp depending of the regulation

Please can you tell me if I read that correctly ?

Thank you, sorry for the OT (not totally)


You are not reading the graph correctly.

Volts (V) are the vertical, current (amps) are the horizontal.

As volts goes down (arc length decrease), amps increases (goes to the right).




Thank you, so arc force make it impossible to go to 0V (shortage ?) but, when arc force begins, it add some volts or only amps (?)
on the hot start sketch amp and V are inverted


No, you can still stick a rod on many machines.
No, the hot start graph clearly labels amps and time - it gives no information on arc voltage.
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

Airco 300 - Syncro 350
Invertec v250-s
Thermal Arc 161 and 300
MM210
Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
User avatar
MinnesotaDave
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Re: Fine Setting

Postby olek » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:51 pm

Thank you Dave, I really misunderstood that one (thinking T was "tension" )

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of gas regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

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