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7018 basic tips

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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:15 pm

Also, I wonder if, when you need to put beads along each other.

Do you need to see the edge of the precedent bead (*or/and feel the angle of the toe.?

Or can a seasoned welder make a straight bead just by feeling the straight line in its muscular memory?

I ask that because when I focus on the puddle, if I have a visual repere it is OK (edge of the metal, edge of a bead)
But sometime I only can see the puddle so it is as making a straight-line with eyes closed.

Is it worth training to learn the straight-line without looking?
Last edited by olek on Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby PeteM » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:39 pm

The straight line stuff seems to come with time, as does how you see the work piece. Learning to focus on the pool and control it is important, but once it becomes a foregone conclusion other things come into focus.

Then you start seeing the joint, the slag, a corner or turn coming up, etc. and after a while you can see the whole picture. Practically speaking, that is where finding a setting for a given electrode becomes important. Then you can sort of sit back and look at the whole piece from 10,000 ft. view. The pool is stable, you have the pace down and you can see the forest And the trees.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:06 am

PeteM wrote:The straight line stuff seems to come with time, as does how you see the work piece. Learning to focus on the pool and control it is important, but once it becomes a foregone conclusion other things come into focus.

Then you start seeing the joint, the slag, a corner or turn coming up, etc. and after a while you can see the whole picture. Practically speaking, that is where finding a setting for a given electrode becomes important. Then you can sort of sit back and look at the whole piece from 10,000 ft. view. The pool is stable, you have the pace down and you can see the forest And the trees.


That is encouraging Thanks ;)

what mean "a corner or turn coming up ?" the future path of the bead around square tubing for instance ?

out of pushing the puddle so it weld the edges of the bead (that is where I did not see some undercut happening as in the precedent post , I remind looking at the pool at all times, stopping at a distance from the top of the block and not seeing the problem. )
This can be solved changing one of the parameters, but a perfect amp setting may certainly help.

I hope I can gain some distance viewing, as I see about nothing at the right of the rod and not really always the "dark to clear line" that I was said allow a survey of the pool while focusing on less light.

I did see on videos that the back of the heated zone can show a moving straight line when going from clear to dark and I tried to use that as a guide, but a specific level of heating and the good darkening are mandatory.
is it a "method" used ?

The puddle once sized do not seem to change much if heat regulation is good, so I may be able to train to look at those darker elements. is it a way to go ? (keeping an eye on the puddle of course)

Or just trying to look with a distance once I am confident of the puddle.
I will buy a less dark screen , (the actual is numb.11 but not recent )I suppose there are different qualities for those fixed darkening glasses, may I have advantage to buy them from 3M for instance ?

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:05 am

it happened also when welding flatter

https://goo.gl/photos/5hnKdDunfgrE9jW36

Slag very thin. I thought not enough angle or too slow (the puddle slips), Are the edges too cold ? (possible when the z motion is too fast)

if I lower the amps it gives a better "normal" slag . is the slag on the edge of burning there ?
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby PeteM » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:44 am

olek wrote: I will buy a less dark screen , (the actual is numb.11 but not recent )I suppose there are different qualities for those fixed darkening glasses, may I have advantage to buy them from 3M for instance ?

Regards


That is a good idea. 3M makes good products. A #10 shade is typical for most welding parameters. 11 gives me some problems.

Its also a good idea to have a piece of suede or other type of coverage on the back of the hood to block ambient light from entering. This will reflect off of the lens and reduce your visibility (to virtually zero).

For what its worth, those welds seem to be coming along just fine.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:21 pm

PeteM wrote:
olek wrote: I will buy a less dark screen , (the actual is numb.11 but not recent )I suppose there are different qualities for those fixed darkening glasses, may I have advantage to buy them from 3M for instance ?

Regards


That is a good idea. 3M makes good products. A #10 shade is typical for most welding parameters. 11 gives me some problems.

Its also a good idea to have a piece of suede or other type of coverage on the back of the hood to block ambient light from entering. This will reflect off of the lens and reduce your visibility (to virtually zero).

For what its worth, those welds seem to be coming along just fine.



Hello, yes good idea to add a light cloth. Indeed light coming from the back is a big hassle. BTW ' I did use very often a strong light 500w on my left.
But when natural light Is available I try to avoid the 500w.
Is it a good idea to train to use' only', the light from the arc (which can be really small when I touch the puddle or drag)

Hopefully my fixed darkness hood 3M have filtered air intake this makes it much closed, a bit heavy but only with the lcd hood I have those light réflexions.

Happy to read that 11 is too dark for you, as it is the same for me.

Yes progress.. I did make a 3F with 6013 on an old support full of slag due to bad work done some time ago.
and repair on cast iron 'open root :, using inox electrode esab 308 on the iron Very happy I did get good full penetration with not too large keyhole,and re cap correctly that pipe made of grey cast-iron. (with my first jobs on that one despite small beads I did hear some crack sounds and when I tried the 308 I had also a hot crack the first time.)

Today all went well. Hammered with the slag hammer not too strong but immediately. Those electrodes are really easy to work with. Better than the NiFe electrodes.

BTW I will V shape grey iron with the plasma cutter, the disk grinder and also milling carbure tools, and try to check with a reactive to see if the HAZ is smaller with plasma than with carbide disks.

Regards

https://goo.gl/photos/kk56g2K7wqFVWT8g8

Is that 3h acceptable? 3vpasses, different beads for the last, stringer beads and descending from the top pics.

Are the stringer beads supposed to have no drops (or almost?)
Less or more amperage than when waving up ("I'm not happy of my stringer up l

When you have slag inclusions as I did have in the upper section , is it possible to burn them descending with a thick electrode. or more chances going up? Or grinding only solution?
I have seen a problem welder using big 7016 electrodes in 2h position (to weld new wear pieces on a rock breaking machine), and he did make 3 beads (4mm), on each joint, leaving the slag.

I did do so on the block with some 6013, and the slag seem to be burned correctly.
Last edited by olek on Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby Poland308 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:42 pm

SS stick rods do not like to be whipped or weaved. That's why your getting a lot of entrapped slag.
I have more questions than answers

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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:09 pm

Poland308 wrote:SS stick rods do not like to be whipped or weaved. That's why your getting a lot of entrapped slag.


Thank you. I will keep that in mind. But today I used 6013 for the 3F (not H sorry ;)
I think there is always much slag with those rods, plus I had some yet entrapped on the support, I did grind but left some slag, hoping to burn it, obviously it did not work so well.

Until now I only used SS rods on grey cast iron. With beads asking as 1/2 inch at the max, I did not notice slag problems then.

You can burn some slag obviously, more easily with 6010 or 7018 than 6013, but I do not grasp the best process to do so out of the flat position where melted slag raise and do not interfere with the new weld eventually ("assuming enough heat can be used)
Regards
Last edited by olek on Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby Poleframer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:46 pm

Kinda late to this thread, but here's my 2 cents worth.
A lot of the welding I've done I cant see squat after the hood goes down. just gotta take a look and go.
When you need to turn on your bedlamp at night, you dont have to paw around, after a while your hand goes right to the switch, same with the alarm clock. After a while of welding, you get to where you see where your hand needs to go, and you just do it.
Or you screw up and grind off the bead you ran off into left field and do it again. Such is life.
Maybe the cost of becoming a good welder can be measured in grinding disks...
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:17 am

Poleframer wrote:Kinda late to this thread, but here's my 2 cents worth.
A lot of the welding I've done I cant see squat after the hood goes down. just gotta take a look and go.
When you need to turn on your bedlamp at night, you dont have to paw around, after a while your hand goes right to the switch, same with the alarm clock. After a while of welding, you get to where you see where your hand needs to go, and you just do it.
Or you screw up and grind off the bead you ran off into left field and do it again. Such is life.
Maybe the cost of becoming a good welder can be measured in grinding disks...


Hello, there is no delay to answer, when one add a point of view or an information ;)

When I train to go with straight beads from left to right, I think I stay in line for 2", then I tend to go there of there depending of the angles used (that is, when welding standing and with one hand, it is going better with 2 hands)

I am considering making a systematic restart at 2". That may give me the opportunity for another 2" eyeballing (and work restarts).

Good idea? When I confidently go straight Left right, thinking I am doing well just with muscular memory, results can be surprising and frustrating (I begin to be good at correcting the lining b y adding new small beads ;))

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
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