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7018 basic tips

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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Help for training with stringer beads vertical up 3F

I did try for 2 hours, without great results
I have no big problems with manipulations, but making small weave or no weave I had trouble, difficult to see the puddle, only the upper part and nothing under the electrode

After different tests I seem to like to use a 95 degree angle and to "push" the electrode in the metal, almost as doing "automatic manual"
78 to 86A with 7018 3/32"
No slag problems and no undercut, but the beads make drops without me noticing

My impression is that you may have always perfect beads to use as guides, as soon as the precedent bead is uneven in height, or wave, it makes a lot of trouble to me

DO you have a few tricks or a basic method to work stringer beads ? May I train again on a flat piece of steel before switching to angled block ?
Or use a slightly stronger angle so to see more of the puddle?

See the last pic https://photos.app.goo.gl/doTHrkeA1PqWMAcL2

Thanks
Last edited by olek on Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby Poland308 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:05 pm

The drops are just extra slag dripping off. You have to learn how to see past them on vertical up.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:48 am

Poland308 wrote:The drops are just extra slag dripping off. You have to learn how to see past them on vertical up.


Looking a little from the side ? (I may see "normal" slag drips, or can the amount of metal be seen from the puddle?)

I tried a lot to fix the drops while doing the next bead, they can be melt somehow, but then I need to consider where the extra metal is going and add less where there is yet enough,

is it Ok to "flatten" a precedent bead that way ? (enlarging the arc on a drop,then going a little faster on its top to avoid adding more - more where there are misses, more heat on drops)
,
ALso, do I have less slag with 80° than with 85 (less thick slag as with flat beads ?)
Pianos , restorer and tuner
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby Poland308 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:07 am

Vertical up takes lots of practice with 7018. There's no method to use to make it drip less, or to get it to look like like it does when your welding flat. You just have to practice with all those variables. Try to be consistent and do everything the same for 1 whole day. Then the next day change the way you do just 1 thing, practice for the day, and then the next day change 1 more thing.
I have more questions than answers

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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:23 am

Poland308 wrote:Vertical up takes lots of practice with 7018. There's no method to use to make it drip less, or to get it to look like like it does when your welding flat. You just have to practice with all those variables. Try to be consistent and do everything the same for 1 whole day. Then the next day change the way you do just 1 thing, practice for the day, and then the next day change 1 more thing.


Thank you Josh for the answer and method

DO you remind how you look at the puddle then (trying to be level or a little on the side to see under, for instance ) ?

I can see a puddle in drop shape, I can try to keep it consistent, but it is a very small puddle.

No doubt it takes a lot of practice ;) a new challenge. I was relatively doing well vertical up with 6013 on flat steel (may be the thick slag help to maintain the puddle ) and with 7018 weaving, it does not drip so much, so I was surprised of my results ;) I will first make a plate vertical up , the cooling is better but it may help to focus on parameters
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:55 pm

Really I need a 9.5 or 10 hood

I switched to the lcd after the first passes as I really did not see well enough with the n11 screen. No puddle or if I see it well it is too hot

Better results today with an inverted smile.

Not perfect but I did see Mr president Trump, Mr macron and all those military lining, it may have influenced me ;)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wa9Hyh6pT4GGuiwi1

And finally Stringer beads.

They are not perfect indeed but I could evaluate the puddle.

Interesting feeling to feel on the edge of mastering the motion and temp. I did begin too cold at 100, but raised to 110 then115 and it is so much easier with enough amps it was a good lesson

The steel is thin at 4.5mm (3/16 ') blowed a hole at 100A, but this is soft steel.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fMgFkLCFAADWJRp63

I think that may be what created drops is working with too low amp and shortening the arc but not always so much.
I feel it create a huge contrast between too cold and good heat, and the metal flows suddenly more. (?)

When the precedent surface is not flat enough sometimes the arc is s really on the puddle (I try to melt the bumps, any method for such correction welcome)

I am not sure of the moment /size of arc where the arc force/dig function begin.
But at 115A the arc is strong but quiet enough, no need felt to shorten it more.

(the feel of that arc was also a good lesson learned, in the end it is good to work each day.)

Is it possible for instance, while using 100 amps and a very short arc (too short, the tone is as muffled), that one will work all the time at 100A + dig value ? or when dragging the rod in the puddle, the dig function must be on .(?)
I. e 30amp if 30% dig provide that amount.
Last edited by olek on Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:23 pm

Hello

today I tried 3F with 6013, working weaving, smiles and triangles.

I was surprised to burn the slag and have some inserted in the beads.

while with 7018 ascending,I did well with 115A, with the 6013 90A was still hot for the slag, difficult to get it out. 100A was hot for the metal

I wonder if this was not due to an angle about 90deg, may be less, while (I did not realise at the moment so I did not try stronger angle) I think 6013 ask for a stronger angle , as 80 degree.

I understand that those rods where developped for fast welding of sheet metal, so possibly 110A could work assuming one speed up enough. ?

any hint ?
Also, when doing christmas tree motion,(or triangle) are we raising each line, or is the top higher than one side (this can help by cooling, but the slag seem to be entrapped that way
each rod type is different ...
thanks
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby MinnesotaDave » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:18 pm

I run 1/8" (3.2mm) 6013, 7014 and 7018 all about the same amperage for vertical up. 120-125 amps.

About 90 degree angle to the base. Pointing up increases the chance of undercut.

Some 6013 brands have a thinner flux coating, I reduce amps as needed for those.
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:28 am

MinnesotaDave wrote:I run 1/8" (3.2mm) 6013, 7014 and 7018 all about the same amperage for vertical up. 120-125 amps.

About 90 degree angle to the base. Pointing up increases the chance of undercut.

Some 6013 brands have a thinner flux coating, I reduce amps as needed for those.


thank you, but do you reduce a little amps for vertical up ? The last person told me to use 2/3 of the amps used for welding flat

I think it is possible that I did go too slow , or that the dig function was causing trouble (at 30%)

I did regulate dig to zero. Very comfortable, I think I begin to see what it does to the arc )



I think thecoating is not thin (lincoln 46). a good surprise the day before , to feel at ease with the strong arc beginning at 115A, so I tried to get the same feeling with 6013.

The solution while keeping that strong tense arc seem to use a maipulation that allows some cooling, is not it?


someone told me to use "smile" to mount a bead with 6013 (in a corner) but to use an inverted smile with 7018, I believe that one cools the weld on the sides, the other in the upper round portion of the inverted smile?)

Does it ring something to you ? Also it is often on 3/8 thick plates assembly, is not it an obligation to use less than 120 a then?) I could see the deformed surface if the beads and I am pretty sure I was burning everything.

I was also explained to make a triangle for the first pass, a stop in the bottom of the angle then a left right wave.

smiles or z with stops right left only since the second pass

correct ?

PS source of uneven zones : correction of the angle on the run as I tend to point up when raising and realize, and correct... ;)
Last edited by olek on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
olek
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Re: 7018 basic tips

Postby olek » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:36 pm

What do you think?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7Zbq3h9l0W5srxyJ2

Christmas tree move. On thin metal.

I stopped 1/8 soon and took 3/32.
6013. 86A (too fluid) then 75A (OK but I had to enlarge up at some point, so I tried 70A and a little slowly

Is it possible that the slag is not cooked enough so it doesn't not go easily? This is really a poor quality steel.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
olek
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