It is currently Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:38 am Advanced search

Amps showing up on display while welding

Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects

Amps showing up on display while welding

Postby olek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:19 am

Have a look at that video from weld com

https://youtu.be/bjB0I3HXIVc?t=12m40s

He tries to run 6010 DC but the welder does not accept it (not enough OCV voltage) the arc stops again and again , it may restart due to the hot start feature sending the max voltage but the arc cannot be maintained well.

There are some moments where the front panel is in the picture, showing the real amps used

So it is regulated at 80A, we see at each start a raise to 147A which seem to be the standard (regulated?) hot start level for that machine (lowering progressively immediately, hot start is said to have a few milliseconds duration so it goes fast)

But what interested me is to see that from 80A the welding is done in the end at about 100

I wonder if this is the arc force function that add those 20A when he uses a short arc. From 80A the amps are not stable and move a lot.

But later in the video he uses 105AMP, then the machine rise at 120 A and is a little more stable at that power

see https://youtu.be/bjB0I3HXIVc?t=24m29s

then he uses 130A , the machine jumps to 150 and barely moves 1-3A p (I think I understand, this welder allows to regulate an "overheat" feature, - should be the dig function ? - so the amps where regulated at 130, and overheat at 150.

Then the drag did put the arc at its max AMPS 150 at all times

https://youtu.be/bjB0I3HXIVc?t=27m14s

I wonder if that is not one of the reason why many like to use the high range of amps, stability.

I feel those amps changes when welding, that tend to make a more erratic arc due to my lack of precision, but when I put arc force/dig to 10% or zero I FEEL a more stable arc, an arc that do not change as much in heat with my little length variations.

That sound stupid, as arc force is sold as an arc stabilizer , I wonder if the function is not on systematically when one use a short tense arc, dragging or almost.

What do you think of those observations ?

PS I find that interesting article on the Miller's site https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/a ... g-purposes
Last edited by olek on Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of arc regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby Poland308 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:34 pm

Arc length plays a big part in variations of amps on the display as you weld.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby olek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Poland308 wrote:Arc length plays a big part in variations of amps on the display as you weld.


Yes, certainly, but do you think that once regulated for instance at 105 AMps, you weld with a short arc and the amps raise 15 amps .

I think it may not work that way, all the amps above the initial regulation are due to the dig function.

If one use a long arc from a 105 Amps regulation, then amps will lower (heat lowers) and tension raise.May be one of the causes for the thicker beads created with a long arc (higher tension = higher projection of metal (tension being seen as the pressure in a water tubing, I find this comparison good)

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of arc regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby Poland308 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:22 pm

Unless you have a poor or intermittent arc then I believe it only boosts the amps for a second or two. No longer.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby olek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:40 pm

Poland308 wrote:Unless you have a poor or intermittent arc then I believe it only boosts the amps for a second or two. No longer.


That I don't know but the graphs show only a modified curve where the amps are boosted more or less when tension is under a certain level

During those 2 seconds the welder have ample time to shorten the arc if the rod is diminishing fast)

But on the display in the video the amps are raised systematically and all along. (and the arc is mainteined short all the time)

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of arc regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby Poland308 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:00 am

Then something more was going on. It wasn't from the dig setting.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby olek » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:41 am

Poland308 wrote:Then something more was going on. It wasn't from the dig setting.


Hello, I suppose you feel when the dig is activated due to a short arc

ON the videos He turns the "peak" or "main heat" button to 150 (last regulation, the left button regulates only the starting Amps . So you may be right this is not a dig function (but it sound as if it is in a similar amps range, that machine have no dig function, only peaks for pulse mode, I dont know how that translate when in MMA)

I find that graph that shows simply that if the welder have a dig function, you can weld in the "dig" domain at all times
If the machine is powerful enough it may not cause trouble to work with low current and high amperage for a long time.

ALso if the "effect" would be only for a few seconds, that would not be very nice you would be welding in a good configuration and then suddenly the heat change ? Welders would not accept that .

I think this is the anti stick function that works that way, sending suddenly a strong setting so to burn the rod and avoid sticking ,not the dig, as the dig may be doing the same thing but just by modifying the welding curve)

On the graph I see that it is possible to work within the modified part of the curve at all times

That we see that on the amps display I am not sure but it sound credible

Image

Image
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of arc regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

Re: Amps showing up on display while welding

Postby olek » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:28 pm

Josh you are right

in the end we may not see it really clearly when the arc force is on, As it is just a modification of the current curve may be a sudden rise of amps can be seen but it may only take in account a few amps (not 10-15 or more )

Now it seem that arc force is defined as a temporary raise of amps but only when the arc is short enough to induce sticking. That would mean it burns very fast a little metal to enlarge the arc

It would be even shorter than when dragging at the edge of the puddle ?


May be I can have an idea of the amount, if welder maker tells me how many volts are used or injected to reinforce the arc when the dig function is on

At that point I have no idea . Too bad I was happy to see a demonstration of my "theory" (we can weld in the arc force part of the curve)

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of arc regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby Poland308 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:35 pm

Poland308 wrote:Then something more was going on. It wasn't from the dig setting.

I said "dig". But meant hot start. Sry.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Dig function showing up on display while welding

Postby olek » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:57 pm

Poland308 wrote:
Poland308 wrote:Then something more was going on. It wasn't from the dig setting.

I said "dig". But meant hot start. Sry.



AH ! OK

I had a look at the manual of that welder, and there is a knob for starting amps level and another for peak , this is used to regulate pulse in tig mode, but influence also the stick mode

What we see is the raise from the start amp to the main level regulation , then back at the end of the job

That said the welder have no dig function and no hot start ,but that possibly have a similar effect than the dig, AS I understand it a stronger voltage create a more invasive arc so any regulation that will modify the voltage will influence the curve is not it ?

Regards
Pianos , restorer and tuner (technician)
Dedicated to learn stick welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads

pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift & end of arc regulation
olek
Guide
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: France

Next

Return to Stick Welding/Arc Welding - Shielded Metal Arc Welding