It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:05 am Advanced search

Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:27 pm

Here's the car frame I m welding on its 71 Chevelle .before I started doing any welding I had it media blasted I try to remember to grind down the metal nice and clean before I clamp any two pieces together and make sure that they're touching each other really well with no gaps before I weld.Sorry pictures upside down.
Attachments
20170904_160614.jpg
20170904_160614.jpg (30.71 KiB) Viewed 313 times
Jim911
New Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:34 pm

Like I said I know these welds look pretty rough they're not consistent in size I'm not consistent in speed but I just want to know if you guys think structurally they'll be sound enough if I continue to weld like this on the car frame even though like I said earlier the welds I'm doing yes there to help stiffen up the frame by boxing it and I'm repairing some holes in the frame but by no means is anything I'm welding of any structural significance. Thanks ,Jim
Jim911
New Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby cj737 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:04 am

0.035 wire will be plenty big. The amount of wire a MIG machine puts out allows great control, and build-up as needed.

Looking at some your welds with 7018, they look fine mostly. I see a notation that says "140 amps". What rod are you running 140 amps? 7018 1/8" rod (probably larger than I'd run on thin material) tops out at about 125 amps. For your project, I'd surely drop to 3/32, maybe 85-90 amps depending upon orientation and material thickness.
cj737
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:59 am

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby MinnesotaDave » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:19 am

Jim911 wrote:Like I said I know these welds look pretty rough they're not consistent in size I'm not consistent in speed but I just want to know if you guys think structurally they'll be sound enough if I continue to weld like this on the car frame even though like I said earlier the welds I'm doing yes there to help stiffen up the frame by boxing it and I'm repairing some holes in the frame but by no means is anything I'm welding of any structural significance. Thanks ,Jim


In my opinion, the entire car frame is structurally significant.

With your poor (inexperienced) welding ability you are very likely to do real damage to the frame that over time manifests itself as cracking.

Just my opinion.

For future reference in stick welding, never weld material thinner than the the rod. Doing so makes it much harder for you.
When the rod is thinner than the material, you have more control and are less likely to burn through in an uncontrolled manner.
Last edited by MinnesotaDave on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

Airco 300 - Syncro 350
Invertec v250-s
Thermal Arc 161 and 300
MM210
Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
User avatar
MinnesotaDave
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:57 pm
Location: Bemidji MN, U.S.A.

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby MinnesotaDave » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:21 am

cj737 wrote:0.035 wire will be plenty big. The amount of wire a MIG machine puts out allows great control, and build-up as needed.

Looking at some your welds with 7018, they look fine mostly. I see a notation that says "140 amps". What rod are you running 140 amps? 7018 1/8" rod (probably larger than I'd run on thin material) tops out at about 125 amps. For your project, I'd surely drop to 3/32, maybe 85-90 amps depending upon orientation and material thickness.


I would respectfully disagree, I often run 7018 over 125 amps on thicker material - and they are rated for it.

image.png
image.png (236.09 KiB) Viewed 244 times
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

Airco 300 - Syncro 350
Invertec v250-s
Thermal Arc 161 and 300
MM210
Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
User avatar
MinnesotaDave
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:57 pm
Location: Bemidji MN, U.S.A.

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:24 pm

CJ737 Thanks the. 3/32 at ab 90 amps and not burning through the car frame so your advise worked.I m having trouble getting use to the fact the welds are much smaller but on the 1-2 mm thickness of the rear frame rail I think it will be ok. Should I run 2 or 3 beads on top of each other for strenght or should I do zig-zag or halfcircle pattern to increase width of weld material Im laying down or should I just run the one bead for each joint .Perhaps with welding less is more IDK..MinesotaDave Point well taken thats why Ive had my neighbor who welded for a living check on my progress . He told me 2 of the weld's I did iniitially were no good so I had to grind them off and start over . There was so much material sitting on top of weld took forever to grind it off. All the welds I did on flat stock were E7018 1/8 inch in the pictures I posted . One hurdle at a time after I finish boxing frame I want to try and fill in the swiss cheese like holes in the frame their isnt a lot but these rust holes range in size from ab 2mm to maybe 2 cm in diameter from rust and corosion. Is it possible to fill these in with stick welding ,I read you can put cooper behind hole and go low amps to fill in ,what rod though.I hate bondo would rather fill holes with metal if possible. Thanks for any advise. Jim
Jim911
New Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Farmwelding » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:33 pm

Jim911 wrote:CJ737 Thanks the. 3/32 at ab 90 amps and not burning through the car frame so your advise worked.I m having trouble getting use to the fact the welds are much smaller but on the 1-2 mm thickness of the rear frame rail I think it will be ok. Should I run 2 or 3 beads on top of each other for strenght or should I do zig-zag or halfcircle pattern to increase width of weld material Im laying down or should I just run the one bead for each joint .Perhaps with welding less is more IDK..MinesotaDave Point well taken thats why Ive had my neighbor who welded for a living check on my progress . He told me 2 of the weld's I did iniitially were no good so I had to grind them off and start over . There was so much material sitting on top of weld took forever to grind it off. All the welds I did on flat stock were E7018 1/8 inch in the pictures I posted . One hurdle at a time after I finish boxing frame I want to try and fill in the swiss cheese like holes in the frame their isnt a lot but these rust holes range in size from ab 2mm to maybe 2 cm in diameter from rust and corosion. Is it possible to fill these in with stick welding ,I read you can put cooper behind hole and go low amps to fill in ,what rod though.I hate bondo would rather fill holes with metal if possible. Thanks for any advise. Jim

Stick welding is definitely not the best option. For patching holes like that some kind of wire feeding is best. For larger holes you may have to take some material and weld into it. Maybe post some pictures of some of the holes.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
Farmwelding
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:37 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:43 pm

Harbor freight has Chicago flux core welder that goes up to 170 amps uses 240Volts do u guys think this would be ok for doing rest of my welding esp when cutting out holes and doing patch work. Its highest rated amperage in in my price range. Thanks ,Jim
Jim911
New Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby cj737 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:47 am

You asked about stacking beads: if the work you're doing is cosmetic and NOT structural, a single pass is all you need. If you are welding plates to, or patches to the original frame, a single, good pass should also be ample.

The material thickness of the frame and the patch need to be similar. Your weld profile doesn't really need to exceed the thickness of either for this purpose. Understand, your welds may certainly hold, but adjacent areas of the frame are more susceptible to cracks or fatigue due to the heat affected zone of your welding. So definitely don't overdo the welds.

Patching holes is often easiest done with a wire feed, yes, that Hobart from HF will be fine for this project. Some 0.030 wire will pour ample wire into the weld and allow you to fill holes (might need a backer) and string on patches. As long as you are applying patches to the frame, and not cutting sections from the frame and replacing them, I'd say more or less you're fine. But you will still be prone to tweaking that frame from heating/welding on it. So take your time!!! It would not surprise me at all that once you're done, the frame won't fit the body without serious "manipulation" and "persuasion" afterwards :oops:
cj737
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:59 am

Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby KenK » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:09 am

If you intend to do quite a bit of this and it looks like you have a serious project going on, a wire machine is the way to go period.

Now, with that said, if your going to invest in a wire machine, seriously consider spending a little more and get a machine that can support the use of gas (argon, CO2 mix). You do not need a 200 amp machine. For hobby work, a 110/ 125 amp machine will do what you need. When doing large jobs, you will have to wait from time to time to let the machine cool but I rarely find this to be a big problem. You will have to make 2 passes when welding 1/4" material but how much of that will you really be doing?

I have built three off road cars using an inexpensive 110 amp machine, 120 VAC wire machine.

As for flux wire welding, I personally do not like flux wire at all. It is real messy (lots of spatter) and requires a lot of cleanup and it really limits what you can do. When you need to thin metal like body panels, 0.035 flux wire will not work. With a gas capable machine, I go to 0.020 wire turn the machine down and do what I need to do.

If you look around, you might find a used small gas capable wire machine around.
KenK
New Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Southern California

PreviousNext

Return to Stick Welding/Arc Welding - Shielded Metal Arc Welding