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Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

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Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:55 pm

Hi, I am new too welding 2 weeks. My neighbor use to weld for a living he let me borrow his lincoln stick welding machine. He taught me a little of the basics . I have watched a fair amount of videos youtube and read about stick welding some . On the new metal 3 mm thick I can lay down text book welds almost everytime with 7014 and 7018 flat that is no other angel. But when I try to weld the new metal with the old I seem to easily burn holes in the old car frame which is also 3mm thick. It doesnt seem to be able to tolerate the heat especially with the E7018 so I have been using the E7014 which doesn t burn holes as easily but have read 7014 doesnt penetrate as well as 7018 even though box says the strenght is 70000 same as 7018.Instead of running beads of welds I have found doesnt burn through old car frame as much actually almost none if I keep the welds really short like 1 inch or so.Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would prefer the 7018 esp because I get a slag hes whereas the 7018 doesnt do that at all. BTW welding is really a lot of fun but stick welding is definetly an art form. Thanks again for any advise . Jim
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Homemade » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:43 pm

Welcome to stick welding. The car frame might be a different grade of steel then the plate your welding to the car. That might be why your getting the burn threw. Even though the tinsel strength of each rod is the same, the 7018 will penetrate deeper vs the 7014 will lay “on” the steel. If your having burn threw problems, then you need to reduce your amp, increase your travel speed, use a smaller diameter rod, or use 7014.


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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Aux » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:36 pm

Pictures would help. The welds that are working, Are you welding two pieces of 3mm metal together or just running beads on a plate? Doing a butt weld is a little trickier than running surface beads on a plate especially if the fit up isn't perfect. Also, you said the flat welds are coming out well. Are you welding onto the car in the flat position?
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:41 pm

Thanks for your advise guys. I cant figure out how to upload photos to this forum any help would be appreciated. I just realized last night the rear frame rail is only ab 1-2 mm thick thats where Im geting most of the burn through. I shouldnt have said my welds were perfect but on a flat piece of steel with 7018 they look descent and I seem to get enought penetration, on the actual car frame with the fillet welds and lap welds not so much . I tried 6011 at ab 40 amps last night as sudgested by a welder on youtube but even that burned through the thinner metal of car frame.7014 seems to be the most forgiving esp. If I just do a bunch of spot welds till they all come together as one contigious weld. Arc welding isnt as easy as it looks.If I can figure out how to upload will post pictures. My sons friend came over after I posted my first post he has a lincoln 3200 he and I both flux core welded some easily with no prob what so ever. Maybe I should get flux core welder it was so much easier to use esp. for inexperienced person like myself. Although I wanted the welds to be indistructable by using 7018.Im just fixing some of the swiss cheese on the old frame and I boxed the frame for a little extra stiffness esp.given the car frames age. But none of the welds are in a critical load bearing place.And yes I been turning frame to different positions so that Im welding parallel to ground. Why do you think the 6011 burned through .
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby cj737 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:19 pm

Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Farmwelding » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:42 pm

cj737 wrote:Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).

And some self shielded wires do not allow multi pass welds. Go to the main page and look in how to use the forum and use should find how to add a picture.
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby MinnesotaDave » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:08 pm

cj737 wrote:Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).


Electrode negative is straight polarity.

Electrode positive is reverse polarity.
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby cj737 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:30 pm

MinnesotaDave wrote:
cj737 wrote:Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).


Electrode negative is straight polarity.

Electrode positive is reverse polarity.

Yeah, I should have said “polarity reversed”.
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:10 pm

Thanks again for the advise here are so.e of my practice welds on flat piece of 3mm thick steel which is what Im usi g for all my frame repairs.Please let me know ab the quality of these welds and what can I do to improve them . Also I know they are not very straight but am tryi g to make straight beads. Of all these welds I should note that on the one small weld with 110amps its the only weld where I actually had slag peel like you see on videos of professional welders. All the other welds slag came off easily but in broken chunks.The larger welds I used zig zag technique and the smaller ones were just straight beads. Also the glowi g one was ab what most of the welds looked like immediately after is that normal or were they too hot.Sorry ab the orientation of pictures.Thanks Jim
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Last edited by Jim911 on Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welding new metal with 46 year old car frame

Postby Jim911 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:22 pm

I'm interested in getting a flux core welder they have one at Harbor Freight for a couple of hundred dollars it's 170 amp 240 volt the maximum wire diameter is .035 do you think that would be okay to finish up the welding on my car frame like I said the thickness of the steel ranges from 1 mm to as thick as 3mm. And the welder my friend brought over was a lincoln 3200 which ran off 120 but IDK what the amps capacity was. I just know it laid down really nice welds. Thanks for the information you guys I'm still a little confused I understand that DC negative runs a little colder than DC positive but I don't really understand what the polarity means or why would I be concerned about the polarity I don't really understand that part . Thanks,Jim
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