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Choosing stick electrodes

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Choosing stick electrodes

Postby samr » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 pm

I'm new to not only stick welding, but welding in general. I've always wanted to be able to weld, and to be able to incorporate metal components into my wood working projects. I purchased an Everlast 200 ST not too long ago, with a package of 7018 electrodes. I initially read about these electrodes being easy to run and see the puddle, and basically how they are the "go to" electrode for lots of scenarios. I did not read into the fact that they need to be stored to prevent moisture infiltration.

Later on, after looking through website about other electrodes to run, I came across someone saying that the 7018 will still produce an acceptable weld if not stored in a rod over or baked prior to use. I will never really be welding anything of structural importance, so that sounded OK to me. But I figured I would start a discussion about alternative options, and if this answer sounded legit? I've used 6013 electrodes before, and I ran those just fine as well. However, I did read that they are not as strong as a 7018. So is a 6013 better than a non rod oven stored 7018, or the other way around?

My welding will be sparse, and I can honestly see whatever I buy sitting for a few months at a time before they are all used up - if that makes a difference.
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby olek » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:36 am

Hello, not dried 7018 are just less easy to start I think.

I was said they can be dried by short circuit them prior to use. (steam goes out of them)

Here I used them from a cardboard box (that is how we receive the Lincoln 7018-1 I suppose those are the same that Excalibur but the container is not well sealed.)

Usually for starting an 7018, I drag it lightly on about 1" before recerting direction and make the puddle, this allow no porosity.

But with the slightly humid rod it tend to stick too easily, with some rods I could not, with others I started at the left of the piece and wait a moment for the rod to warm, but it was not enough see :
Image

Image

Next time I will try to dry the rods by short circuit them, but having the anti sticking feature, I am not sure my inverter will warm the rod enough before shutting itself.

I use a big kitchen oven for a short drying (1 hour) at max temp 240-260° Celsius (460 F) , it seem to be enough to have rods that are pleasing to use. The full drying, plus keeping the rods in a rod caddy (oven) before welding, is mandatory for structural coded work only, for a welding table or a welding caddy, 6013 or not perfectly dry 7018 is really not a problem, people tend to avoid them because the heavy slag make more difficult to see the puddle, but as long as the edges are visible I think this is not a real trouble.

There are 7014 I heard of but never used, The stainless electrodes are also pleasant , but expensive , the 7016 have a thin glassy slag and are said to be idiot proof, but I do not see really what is there about, they are not as sensitive to humidity Than 7018 while having the same toughness, a bit more expensive too (The 7018-1 are the less expensive rods I can buy)

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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby Mike » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:35 am

Welcome to the forum.
Just burn them.
M J Mauer Andover, Ohio

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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby samr » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I was assuming the big argument of keeping these electrodes dry is due to highly regulated code work or similar. This being strictly a hobby setting, I can make them work.
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby olek » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:50 pm

samr wrote:Thanks for the replies.

I was assuming the big argument of keeping these electrodes dry is due to highly regulated code work or similar. This being strictly a hobby setting, I can make them work.


They are eventually sensitive to moisture so it is not "only" a code question. But if you have a buzz box or a welder that do not cut the current when short-circuit (anti stick) you can dry a too humid electrode by putting it frankly in contact with the grounded piece.
If it is very humid you will see steam escaping from the electrode.
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby Poland308 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:00 am

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/su ... etail.aspx

Just a quick note. Drying electrodes has more effect than just on the starts. Using the electrodes is probably fine, I use old 7018 for lots of stuff. But drying them at too high a temp is not recommended. And drying them longer at lower temps is not the same.
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby olek » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:35 am

Poland308 wrote:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/storing-electrodes-detail.aspx

Just a quick note. Drying electrodes has more effect than just on the starts. Using the electrodes is probably fine, I use old 7018 for lots of stuff. But drying them at too high a temp is not recommended. And drying them longer at lower temps is not the same.


I noticed they burn more smoothly, but no x-ray or other test of course. For temp, due to the high temp the y accept may not be easy to overrun it. What I do is one hour at max

For less temp/longer run, I rely on basic chemistry, temp is energy, when using a catalysed product as epoxy, Polyurethane , drying /hardening follow the rule, if you have less heat, dry longer. If course there are effects of drying fast or slow too, but with electrodes coating, what do you think could possibly change?


Plus the electrode is often rated for at least 5 drying..
I have pics of a bending test done with shirt circuits electrodes, and was said that in the very humuf/rainy Seattle, welders do this all the time (even for a qualification, was said)
I keep in mind their interest is to sell, they do mot say how many jours of drying are OK. Until the cover get brittle I suppose.

I was given a word-of caution, that when there is cellulose (paper or fine wood dust) the drying temp should be low as above 80°c the cellulose is degraded. For the R type 7018,this is not paper or wood but Ptfe probably they accept same temp than the old 7018.*I will ask my friend "cooking" engeneer at a major rod plant
Pianos , restorer and tuner
Dedicated to learn welding since april
slowly learning ;) not complaining of doing beads and beads
pro inverter PROGYS 200 FV PFC CEL+tig lift
OA Oxyflam 1000 cutting and welding gas torch
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:59 pm

olek wrote:
Poland308 wrote:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/storing-electrodes-detail.aspx

Just a quick note. Drying electrodes has more effect than just on the starts. Using the electrodes is probably fine, I use old 7018 for lots of stuff. But drying them at too high a temp is not recommended. And drying them longer at lower temps is not the same.


I noticed they burn more smoothly, but no x-ray or other test of course. For temp, due to the high temp the y accept may not be easy to overrun it. What I do is one hour at max

For less temp/longer run, I rely on basic chemistry, temp is energy, when using a catalysed product as epoxy, Polyurethane , drying /hardening follow the rule, if you have less heat, dry longer. If course there are effects of drying fast or slow too, but with electrodes coating, what do you think could possibly change?


For a chemistry layman like myself, I refer to the published literature on the subject.
The answer is the flux does not absorb water like a sponge, the water becomes chemically bonded to flux.

This is the reason for such high temperatures to re-bake the rods. The high temperature is required to break the bonds.

The same happens in the energy of the arc while welding.
The bonds get broken and that's how hydrogen disassociates and gets into the weld.
(the big words are from the published literature :D )
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby Poland308 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:12 pm

The whole point of 7018 is low hydrogen deposits. If that’s not a concern then use it any way you can get it to arc!
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Re: Choosing stick electrodes

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:54 pm

Poland308 wrote:The whole point of 7018 is low hydrogen deposits. If that’s not a concern then use it any way you can get it to arc!


That's it in a nutshell right there :)

7014 and 6013 are easy to run though if low hydrogen isn't a concern :D

Well, so are 6010 and 6011...lol
Dave J.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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