Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects
PeteM
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aland wrote: I think this has taught me mostly that it could be good to have some inexpensive exhaust system to pull the fumes away, or in the worst case I will just use a small fan to blow the fumes away from me.

Alan
Yeah, ventilation is a very good idea regardless of what you're welding. Aside from the chromium, there are other additives like manganese that can cause some serious problems down the road. Even using a regular box fan to draw the smoke/fumes out will help.

ps. Apologies for my abrasive introduction. That was a bad reaction and unnecessary. You don't have to worry about that happening again.
aland
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PeteM wrote:Yeah, ventilation is a very good idea regardless of what you're welding. Aside from the chromium, there are other additives like manganese that can cause some serious problems down the road. Even using a regular box fan to draw the smoke/fumes out will help.
Indeed, I will be fixing that problem in the future, and using a box fan in the meantime.
PeteM wrote:ps. Apologies for my abrasive introduction. That was a bad reaction and unnecessary. You don't have to worry about that happening again.
No worries, I have thick skin. I'm certain you have a lot more welding experience than me, and I will be the first to admit, the project that has sparked my interest in welding is a critical one. I do plan to take it on, but not until I feel comfortable with it. I purchased a piece of plate to use, but can always opt to have someone weld it for me should I not feel comfortable. In the meantime I'm doing some smaller projects that are not as critical/dangerous, some of them tig, but I've been practicing my stick and feeling a lot more comfortable with 7018 and 6011, just not comfortable enough to take on the hitch just yet.

This is a very non-critical application, a nut to hold a caster on the bottom of a piece of angle under a simple welding table. Just trying to understand the metals and fumes...about 15 years ago I started blacksmithing, and used to hang out on AnvilFire, where Jim "Paw-Paw" Wilson, a great blacksmith, used to help folks, publish articles, and in general promoted the art of blacksmithing...I only knew him for a couple years...but he was taken victim of fume fever...a sad day indeed when he passed, mainly as he knew better...$#!T happens to the best of us...I would encourage anyone who is not very familiar with fume fever to read this, it does talk about welding hazards on that page, so very pertinent to welding.

R.I.P. Paw-Paw, you will be long missed... :(

http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.p ... fety3/demo

These little nuts are nothing like that. Just good to be aware, don't breath the crap, it's not good for you. I'm certain I could weld this in my shop and be done with it and go on with life...but that doesn't mean it's right. I *WILL* be getting better fume extraction, no question.

Alan
Poland308
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Hex chrome vapors do require more than just a fan to get rid of. The fab shop at the place I work has to use special monitoring equipmen to monitor levels. Even with the shop doors open and fans running the levels can be high. You need special point of use vac systems to capture the vapor plume off the weld. If your concerned about such things.

309 is formulated specifically for low carbon to SS joints. It will maintain the corrosion resistance while keeping your joint from becoming brittle. For your application it may not be necessary, but it is the correct way. 312 is expensive but not uncommon. However it is formulated for other purposes. Simply reading the info from the manufacturer web site will no doubt remove personal opinions and empower you with facts.
http://weldingwire.com/Images/Interior/ ... ry/312.pdf
http://weldingwire.com/Images/Interior/ ... ry/312.pdf
I have more questions than answers

Josh
aland
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Lightning wrote:P.S. That SuperMissileWeld is some exotic, expensive and effective stuff. I sure as he¡¡ wouldn't waste it for your little "welded nut" project.
Almost missed your post, but I won't be using it for this...I am going to use mild steel after the plating is removed.

I honestly don't know what I will use it for, since stick welding stainless is not going to be something I do regularly, I was actually thinking about using the stainless to avoid the plate fumes...given there is no gain, mild steel is the way to go. If I understood my LWS correctly, even when tig welding you need to be aware of indifferent metals as they have different heat temps...(i.e., stainless and mild have different melting points). That said, I do use tool steels occasionally, but would probably use tig for that in the future. You still need to understand differences as fusion will take place at different temps, so starting on the stainless side of the weld with tig and moving to the A36 might be desirable, I'm not sure...just talking out the side of my arse...but I can see that would be an issue for tig as well.
Yes, thank you for that link:

"312 is a good choice for welding carbon steels to stainless, tool steels and other difficult to weld steels."

Would probably work but not perfect for this application as A36 is a low carbon steel. Stainless to O1 would probably be a better match for 312 I would think.

That may be useful in the future. I do work with tool steels quite often, but try to pick ones that will weld, like 8620 when welding is a possibility. I have made some stuff like axles for bearings to ride on that would be welded to mild steel, and in that case will use 1018 as it welds. In the past I would take the axles and mild steel to a local fab shop and get them to weld it for me, but trying to learn that so I don't need to job that type of stuff out anymore, since I have a small welder now. ;) Even so, I think tig would suit welding dissimilar metals more than stick.

Alan
homeboy
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When welding on nuts for whatever purpose I only use what I think they call flair nuts. The ones with the built in washer flange on the bottom. Even a 1/4in has enough of a flange to get a secure weld without chancing blowing into the threads. Screw a bolt just thru the nut to protect the treads.
cj737
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homeboy wrote:When welding on nuts for whatever purpose I only use what I think they call flair nuts. The ones with the built in washer flange on the bottom. Even a 1/4in has enough of a flange to get a secure weld without chancing blowing into the threads. Screw a bolt just thru the nut to protect the treads.
If I may, never screw a stainless bolt into a stainless nut and weld the nut. The heat will fuse the bolt to the nut permanently, even if you weld the flange. If you coat the bolt with AntiSieze you stand a chance to get it out, but use an oxide or zinc bolt for better results.
homeboy
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Actually all I ever use is mild steel. I never worked with stainless other than some plasma cutting. From following the threads
cj737 wrote:
homeboy wrote:When welding on nuts for whatever purpose I only use what I think they call flair nuts. The ones with the built in washer flange on the bottom. Even a 1/4in has enough of a flange to get a secure weld without chancing blowing into the threads. Screw a bolt just thru the nut to protect the treads.
If I may, never screw a stainless bolt into a stainless nut and weld the nut. The heat will fuse the bolt to the nut permanently, even if you weld the flange. If you coat the bolt with AntiSieze you stand a chance to get it out, but use an oxide or zinc bolt for better results.
Actually all I ever work with is mild steel. I do know from following the threads that if I ever decide to try stainless that I got a lot of " learnin" to do. Thanks for the advice. :D
aland
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cj737 wrote:
homeboy wrote:If I may, never screw a stainless bolt into a stainless nut and weld the nut. The heat will fuse the bolt to the nut permanently, even if you weld the flange. If you coat the bolt with AntiSieze you stand a chance to get it out, but use an oxide or zinc bolt for better results.
cj,

I don't work with stainless too much either, I was only thinking that I would be ok welding stainless, but as it turns out the fumes don't seem any better.

The casters don't have stainless bolts, they have zinc I'm almost certain.

I took a fan in the garage and will just use it to blow the fumes, grind the chrome off and weld these nuts on there. It's not a big deal. I welded the cross bars with the holes on earlier, but got summoned away for dinner.

I could just jb-weld these nuts on also, they only need to hold the caster in. Am I allowed to mention jb-weld on a welding forum? :roll:

Alan
homeboy
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JB Weld -- AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH !!!!
cj737
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homeboy wrote:Actually all I ever use is mild steel. I never worked with stainless other than some plasma cutting. From following the threads
cj737 wrote:
homeboy wrote:When welding on nuts for whatever purpose I only use what I think they call flair nuts. The ones with the built in washer flange on the bottom. Even a 1/4in has enough of a flange to get a secure weld without chancing blowing into the threads. Screw a bolt just thru the nut to protect the treads.
If I may, never screw a stainless bolt into a stainless nut and weld the nut. The heat will fuse the bolt to the nut permanently, even if you weld the flange. If you coat the bolt with AntiSieze you stand a chance to get it out, but use an oxide or zinc bolt for better results.
Actually all I ever work with is mild steel. I do know from following the threads that if I ever decide to try stainless that I got a lot of " learnin" to do. Thanks for the advice. :D
The best “learnin’“ I’ve ever received in welding and fabricating left the worst scars ;) Just trying to help someone avoid costly medical bills... :lol:
aland
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homeboy wrote:JB Weld -- AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH !!!!
Whoa, watch it...I love that $#!T...it's one of the best to repair cast iron...and I hate to admit but i have jb-welded nuts on for almost the same application, different project....I've used it to get me out of a pinch before...it works. On broken cast iron parts I have used blue painters tape to build a small dam around the area I want to fix, pour the jb-weld in, then machine or file after it's dry.
homeboy
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aland wrote:
homeboy wrote:JB Weld -- AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH !!!!
Whoa, watch it...I love that $#!T...it's one of the best to repair cast iron...and I hate to admit but i have jb-welded nuts on for almost the same application, different project....I've used it to get me out of a pinch before...it works. On broken cast iron parts I have used blue painters tape to build a small dam around the area I want to fix, pour the jb-weld in, then machine or file after it's dry.
Just kidding. I have heard it's a good product also.
aland
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homeboy wrote:
aland wrote:Just kidding. I have heard it's a good product also.
The reason I even mentioned I possibly shouldn't mention it on a welding forum is that it is kind of a controversial topic, but it is pretty darn useful and I know a lot of XLNT machinists that use it.

It is really good to be used as a filler, like in a porous situation where you want to paint a machine, as an example. If you let it firm up just a bit you can use it like bondo to smooth out the cast iron.

Alan
Poland308
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Without a doubt JB weld or any specialty epoxy definitely have a place. Theres always more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes it’s the most practical, economical, or efficient solution. I’ve used a product from 3m that’s called liquid metal for repairing small screw holes that needed filled and retapped. When disassembly or heat from welding wasn’t an efficient option.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
aland
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Lightning wrote:P.S. That SuperMissileWeld is some exotic, expensive and effective stuff. I sure as he¡¡ wouldn't waste it for your little "welded nut" project.
Lightning...I'm gonna use it. I'm kind of curious now. I was going to use 7018 today, but before I went out to the garage I got inclined to google for the super missleweld. This link to video Wyatt Swaim did a few years ago talks about it. This is good information on the subject, but it got me to thinking I just try one of those electrodes.

Honestly, I could get more if I wanted and can even get them at my LWS. He was nice enough to give me a few, I should just use them. The interesting part is how the chromium carbides build up on the backside. I think tig will be the choice for similar welding in the future, so I might as well burn one and use a fan to blow that chromium off to the neighbors house... :o

I will probably have the other 3 electrodes in my canister 10 years from now...

Oh, this video is doing tig, but mentions and talks about the super missleweld. Wyatt also implies some of the dangers in using it, I'll just use a fan. I'll let you know how it goes.
Last edited by aland on Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
aland
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Ok, I'm sure that was way overkill, but how many times in your life do you get to say you welded your nuts with super missionweld ? :lol:

Learned a couple interesting pieces of information. I saw that Chrome nuts are twice the price of Stainless. That makes sense as Chrome Moly is much more durable, I just hadn't thought about it like that.

The Harris Space MissionWeld is much easier to stop/start/restart than 7018, and flows pretty nice, I would say a similar puddle for me.

I used an IR Thermometer I got recently to test the temp on the weld and metal, and about 10-20 seconds after welding the weld/nut/metal was around 160F-190F degrees, but the bolt I screwed into the nut while I welded was about 250F-300F degrees.

Interesting that so much heat travels through the nut/steel to the bolt but those are cooler.

That Space MissleWeld starts really easy, I was using 88 amps on a 3/32" electrode with about 50% Arc Force. Damn it burns quick on those little rods, they're only like 8" long. The 1/8" rods are the standard 14".

I can cross that off my bucket list now... :lol:

Alan
Owr
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309 stick is probably the best and you can get away with 308 as well. Welded lots of mild steel to ss with 308 and in wet conditions the weld never rusted, there probably ain`t that much carbon in the weld itself.
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