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6010 uphill.. Frustrating

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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Farmwelding » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:58 pm

cj737 wrote:I'll just say this: welding 6010 is not something you can "learn" by watching. It is a very tricky rod to learn, uphill even harder, so don't become frustrated too early. Until you have burned about 50# of it in every direction, consider yourself a COMPLETE novice. Then, you begin again with your non-dominant hand ;) I can weld most everything else well enough, but 6010 STILL kicks my arse all around the block. I basically suck at it, truth be told. But I can run 7018 with a mirror off hand. Go figure...

Same here. You get out of posistion hand me a 7018. I find it easier to keep steady and constant than constantly whipping around.
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Skiddz » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:59 am

MinnesotaDave wrote:Just remember it's not really all about timing, the movements are also based on what you see the puddle doing.
That split second when the puddle fills out to the same size as the one below it is when you whip up.
When everything is going well, it ends up looking like a timed movement.
After I do demonstrations I rotate through the booths and weld with each student at least once per class.


Yeah, got that figured out fairly well doing flat work, just all falls apart going uphill. Having some issues seeing the puddle in that position, but I'm North of 50 so Ill be picking up some "cheaters" in the morning to see if that helps me to see better with tonight's class.

cj737 wrote:I'll just say this: welding 6010 is not something you can "learn" by watching. It is a very tricky rod to learn, uphill even harder, so don't become frustrated too early. Until you have burned about 50# of it in every direction, consider yourself a COMPLETE novice. Then, you begin again with your non-dominant hand ;) I can weld most everything else well enough, but 6010 STILL kicks my arse all around the block. I basically suck at it, truth be told. But I can run 7018 with a mirror off hand. Go figure...


I think the "frustration" comes from not knowing what exactly to look for, what I'm doing right/wrong. I'm sure it just comes down to lack of experience/practice. I'm seriously considering buying a machine (Thunderbolt 210) to practice with and to have on hand for a couple things I want to build around the house. (That's what I'm telling my wife anyways.. :))

We did 7018 tonight and wow, what a difference. 2F position with 1/4" plate. Took a few passes to figure out my travel speed, but once I got that figured out, I was able to put down some decent passes. The whole class picked it up fairly quickly. I did 6, 3-pass fillets and 2, 6-pass fillets. 4 of the 6 3-pass runs were decent and both of the 6-pass runs came out pretty decent as well. A couple small sections of undercut and some "loss of rhythm" but compared to the 6010 passes, a huge improvement.

tweake wrote:is that a typo or is the problem your running DCEN instead of DCEP ?


Nope, you're right. DCEP. (Had to look at the machine, hehehe)

BTW: Is there a Multi-Quote button here? Copying/pasting multiple quotes is a bit of a PITA.
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:56 am

Skiddz wrote:
Yeah, got that figured out fairly well doing flat work, just all falls apart going uphill. Having some issues seeing the puddle in that position, but I'm North of 50 so Ill be picking up some "cheaters" in the morning to see if that helps me to see better with tonight's class.


I'm 48 and have cheaters in my welding helmet.

Sometimes with tig I also put a pair on my face too.

Focal length is the key, if I need to be closer, I need more magnification.

Or, if it's a really tiny weld, I need more magnification and then my head ends up closer again anyway.
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby tungstendipper » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:10 am

MinnesotaDave wrote:
Skiddz wrote:
Yeah, got that figured out fairly well doing flat work, just all falls apart going uphill. Having some issues seeing the puddle in that position, but I'm North of 50 so Ill be picking up some "cheaters" in the morning to see if that helps me to see better with tonight's class.


I'm 48 and have cheaters in my welding helmet.

Sometimes with tig I also put a pair on my face too.

Focal length is the key, if I need to be closer, I need more magnification.

Or, if it's a really tiny weld, I need more magnification and then my head ends up closer again anyway.



Don't forget, a lot of light too!
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby MinnesotaDave » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:00 pm

tungstendipper wrote:
MinnesotaDave wrote:I'm 48 and have cheaters in my welding helmet.

Sometimes with tig I also put a pair on my face too.

Focal length is the key, if I need to be closer, I need more magnification.

Or, if it's a really tiny weld, I need more magnification and then my head ends up closer again anyway.



Don't forget, a lot of light too!


Man you're not kidding. :?

I have 14 200watt bulbs in my 26x32 shop and I still need a trouble light while working on cars....and sometimes even when working at the table...
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby PeteM » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Skiddz wrote:I think the "frustration" comes from not knowing what exactly to look for, what I'm doing right/wrong. I'm sure it just comes down to lack of experience/practice. I'm seriously considering buying a machine (Thunderbolt 210) to practice with and to have on hand for a couple things I want to build around the house. (That's what I'm telling my wife anyways.. :))


An instructor once told me that with 6010 "What you see is what you get", meaning that the flux doesn't emerge from the pool like it does with other rods and processes (7018,fcaw-g).

Rod angle is super important too, especially with up hill. Tilting the rod will give too much tip and create a really hot pool that falls out and makes a mess as a lot of people tend to drop their wrist and start reaching with the electrode as they progress through the weld.
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Skiddz » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:52 pm

I can still read ok if it's bright enough, but low light makes it tough. I think if I had better lighting in the booth it would help to see both puddle and weld direction better, but the cheaters were only a few bucks so we'll see how that goes tonight.

Question on electrode angle going uphill: I've seen vids that show both 90 degrees from the workpiece and a +/- 10 "push" angle.. I tried both but both results sucked (lol).. Which would make more sense to stick with for a beginner?
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby PeteM » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:12 pm

I prefer less, like a couple deg. off of 90, but that becomes pretty subjective as people find their own preferences.
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Poland308 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:58 pm

The direction the rod is pointed is where the metal is going to deposit. Use this to favor the weld depending on joint configuration or position.
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Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Lightning » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:09 pm

I would try to keep it close to 90° until you start to "get it" with 601X. The whip and pause technique may help you...

Beware of arc blow at the top of your piece...if you have trouble with the arc pulling the puddle downward toward the end of your weld, ask your instructor if he thinks it's arc blow. There are ways to deal with it, including moving your work clamp, and welding a piece of steel beyond the end of your weld, so that the magnetic flux doesn't get all jammed up at the top of your run. Lincoln has a good article on arc blow, Google and you'll find it if interested.

Don't worry, once you get it, 6010 will be easy. I consider it a lot easier than 7018, I guess because it's the first rod I learned on, and the one I use the most.
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