It is currently Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:35 pm Advanced search

6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Skiddz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:03 pm

Lightning wrote:I would try to keep it close to 90° until you start to "get it" with 601X. The whip and pause technique may help you...


Yep, doing the whip and pause on flat is working ok. Uphill is still the issue. Inverted "T"s seems to be the best thus far, just need to work on travel speed and timing of the "T".

Beware of arc blow at the top of your piece...if you have trouble with the arc pulling the puddle downward toward the end of your weld, ask your instructor if he thinks it's arc blow. There are ways to deal with it, including moving your work clamp, and welding a piece of steel beyond the end of your weld, so that the magnetic flux doesn't get all jammed up at the top of your run. Lincoln has a good article on arc blow, Google and you'll find it if interested.


I've been "pushing" uphill and about an inch before the end of the run, I start to transition to a slight "pull" and get the last 1/2" or so at that angle. Saw several vids of that technique. Still getting a little cratering at the end, but it's getting better.

I actually had an arc blow on 7018 last night. It made a mess of what was looking to be a nice run...

Don't worry, once you get it, 6010 will be easy. I consider it a lot easier than 7018, I guess because it's the first rod I learned on, and the one I use the most.


We started on 6010 and did that for 6 classes. Just started on 7018 this week and I (and the rest of the class) find it a lot easier to run than 6010. Next week is 6010 root passes with two 7018 cover passes. I'm going to run out Saturday and maybe pick up a Thunderbolt 210 and a box of 6010 and practice all day. :)
Skiddz
New Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:18 am

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Skiddz » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Quick update. Went backwards a bit and stopped vertical practice and worked on stacking beads in fillet welds. 6010 root and 7018 fill, but last night, I was determined to figure out 6010 fillet welds with 6010 cover passes using 3/8" material. Other than some undercut on the root pass, I was actually getting decent results on all but the last "top" pass. Still getting undercut - I can't seem to find the right angle/technique with 6010. After 10 passes on each side of my "T", I went back to 7018 cover passes.

Still can't quite make a nice straight line (Having a hard time seeing where I need to go, even with my helmet turned down to about9.25 (Any lower and it's too bright) but getting better. Frustrating because I literally soloed a helicopter in less time than it's taken to get to this point under the hood. I *am* able to work the puddle and "fix" issues with previous passes so there's progress. Just very slow progress.

Next class it's back to vertical uphill... yay.
Skiddz
New Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:18 am

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Poland308 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:46 pm

Do you have the ability to adjust arc force?
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Lightning » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:55 pm

Stick with it, you'll get it. Really hone in on that puddle. Change hoods if need be (I find a fixed shade gives me a MUCH better view of the puddle) so that you can really see what's going on with the puddle, and maybe get a demo from a few different (competent) welders while watching how they handle their puddles, then spend the time. Don't worry, you'll get it...
Lightning
Workhorse
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:55 pm

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Bill Beauregard » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:34 pm

I was working on a 5/16" thick underground gas tank last year. The tank was heavily corroded, the rectangular frame I was surrounding it with was also heavily corroded. I needed to run 48' of vertical weld to join tank to frame. The metal was NASTY rusted, and i reached a point where grinding had gone 1/16" deep into all surfaces, and deep pits still remained.

Minnesota Dave coached me some, and CEP over at Welding web suggested turning up the heat, and running a U shaped bead to blow out old, corrupt metal, replacing it with new. That strategy worked for me. Clean metal makes all the difference, but if you have clean, why not use 7018?
Bill Beauregard
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Green Mountains of Vermont

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Skiddz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:39 pm

Poland308 wrote:Do you have the ability to adjust arc force?


There is an Arc/Dig setting on the machine, but I haven't played with it. I downloaded the manual for the machine (Miller XMT 304) and will do some reading tonight when I'm done with the "Honey-Do" list for today.

Lightning wrote:Stick with it, you'll get it. Really hone in on that puddle. Change hoods if need be (I find a fixed shade gives me a MUCH better view of the puddle) so that you can really see what's going on with the puddle, and maybe get a demo from a few different (competent) welders while watching how they handle their puddles, then spend the time. Don't worry, you'll get it...


I've played with the shading on my hood. Found that just shy of 9.5 seems to offer me the best view. Anything lower and it's leaving purple spots in my vision when I'm done. I did get some one-on-one with the instructor and that did help with 6010 cover passes. There is a lot to look at while you're running beads. Puddle, arc length, where you're going, any occlusions that need a little extra time etc. I'm sure I'll get it, just need more time under the hood and some direction on what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong.

Bill Beauregard wrote:I was working on a 5/16" thick underground gas tank last year. The tank was heavily corroded, the rectangular frame I was surrounding it with was also heavily corroded. I needed to run 48' of vertical weld to join tank to frame. The metal was NASTY rusted, and i reached a point where grinding had gone 1/16" deep into all surfaces, and deep pits still remained.

Minnesota Dave coached me some, and CEP over at Welding web suggested turning up the heat, and running a U shaped bead to blow out old, corrupt metal, replacing it with new. That strategy worked for me. Clean metal makes all the difference, but if you have clean, why not use 7018?


This is all in a class and you have to learn to walk before you can run so we started with 6010. Our cert test will be vertical uphill, open root 6010 with 2 7018 cover passes. If I can get the 6010 down, the cover passes will be cake.

Completely unrelated (Well, sort of) question since you all have way more experience than I... If I had a budget of $1000-$1200, what would be a decent multi-process machine to pick up? Input power is not an issue as I can install a 220V circuit in the garage in a couple hours. I don't need a Mig/wire feed gun at this point, but it would be nice... Don't really care about the brand as long as parts support is good and it's got a reasonable duty cycle for home/hobby use.
Skiddz
New Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:18 am

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Poland308 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:30 pm

Set the arc force for about 5. It will give you some dig but soften things up a bit. Maybe enough to get rid of your undercut at the edge. Granted you could even go down to 2 or 3 but it’s not a magic wand. It will often help if the undercut is very small. Especially if you run fine with similar settings in the horizontal.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Skiddz » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:50 am

Poland308 wrote:Set the arc force for about 5. It will give you some dig but soften things up a bit. Maybe enough to get rid of your undercut at the edge. Granted you could even go down to 2 or 3 but it’s not a magic wand. It will often help if the undercut is very small. Especially if you run fine with similar settings in the horizontal.


Reading the docs for this XMT machine, it doesn't explain very well what the Inductance/Dig control does - at least not in a way that makes sense to a rookie like me. I did, however, find a thread on the Miller forums that explained it a little better, and, had a suggestion to run 6010 at 60% and 7018 at 20-30%. I'll have to play with it a bit on Tuesday night.
Skiddz
New Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:18 am

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby aland » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:40 am

Skiddz wrote:
Poland308 wrote:Reading the docs for this XMT machine, it doesn't explain very well what the Inductance/Dig control does - at least not in a way that makes sense to a rookie like me. I did, however, find a thread on the Miller forums that explained it a little better, and, had a suggestion to run 6010 at 60% and 7018 at 20-30%. I'll have to play with it a bit on Tuesday night.


Skiddz,

I was having an issue on my machine, and hadn't paid much attention to it. I realized the next day after thinking things through, and was looking in the manual. I saw the ARC Force and checked the setting, which was down around 5%. I was having problems with both 6011 and 7018...

Jody has an XLNT video you should watch where he talks about it. His numbers are almost exactly the same as what you got on the Miller forum.

(this is from a slide in the video)

"“ARC force” aka “DIG” increases the amperage when your arc shortens to help prevent Sticking. Higher settings like around 65% are recommended for 6010 and lower setting of around 30% for 7018”

Here's the video:



With that said, in other videos Jody shows running 7018 at a much higher ARC force, up around 70% and it it still welds fine for him...and he describes 7018 as being "buttery" at around 30%. HIs point was that sometimes you need a little extra bite and turning up the ARC force (DIG) can help...in that case you need to adjust your arc length to keep the stick burning nicely. For me it was like night and day with 6011 (similar to your 6010), once I turned the ARC force up to about 65%. it just started working, where the 5% made it almost impossible to even keep an ARC.

DISCLAIMER: take what I say with a grain of salt, I ran into a problem with ARC force recently and found Jody's video after searching on the web. it is difficult to find too much info on it. Jody's video above is about the best I've seen online at explaining it.

Alan
Last edited by aland on Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
aland
Guide
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:10 pm

Re: 6010 uphill.. Frustrating

Postby Poland308 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:13 am

If you’ve been running consistent beads. Then you will notice arc forces biggest visual que is at the toes of the weld. The edges will flow and wet in different. More arc force will cause them to dig in / less will flow more. I tend to crank up mine if I’m welding on rusty or painted stuff.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Poland308
Weldmonger
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm
Location: Iowa

PreviousNext

Return to Stick Welding/Arc Welding - Shielded Metal Arc Welding