[Chips O'Toole]

I am trying to learn how to stick weld.

I got myself some 1/8" hot-rolled, and I tried a couple of different types of rod tonight: Lincoln 7018AC and Vulcan 6011, both in 3/32". I tried currents from 40 to 70 amps, electrode positive. The metal wasn't particularly clean. Mill scale, mostly.

I don't have an instructor, so I am using Youtube University. I'm trying to do exactly what people do in videos, but I can't strike an arc reliably to save my life. They say to act like I'm lighting a match, but no matter how softly or quickly I touch the work, the rod either does nothing or instantly sticks to the metal. I probably failed 80% of the time. Is there something I'm missing?

The 6011 was impossible to deal with. Once I got it going, it popped and stopped and started. I thought maybe it was because I cheaped out and bought Harbor Freight rod, but other people claim this stuff works.

The 7018 created what I would consider to be normal weld beads, once I got it going. That was encouraging. The starting problem was just as bad with 7018 as with 6011.

Managed to flash myself once. First time in 12 years. I got so frustrated with the rods, I was hurrying and got distracted. Hoping for the best. Fortunately, because I can't strike an arc very well, it was awfully brief. I'm hoping a quick flash at 40 amps won't cause too much misery.

[varekai]

Hey Chips, first I assume your work lead is grounded properly, if connected to your table, is the table clean? Mill scale is a big pain, but sounds to me like you could use to up the amps... What kind of machine are you running? I am logically guessing here and hope someone who knows more chimes in. And 1 flash wont hurt, you'll be fine. Good Luck.

[BetheRod]

I had the same problems, I found my issue was using steel that was to thin. Once I stepped up to 1/4 in striking a arc became much easier. I’m not sure why, but it worked for me.
B


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[weldin mike 27]

Also a decent chunk of metal helps you with the electrode. If it does stick, you can whip it off without the small piece coming up with the rod.

[tweake]

I tried currents from 40 to 70 amps, electrode positive. The metal wasn't particularly clean. Mill scale, mostly.

The 6011 was impossible to deal with. Once I got it going, it popped and stopped and started. I thought maybe it was because I cheaped out and bought Harbor Freight rod, but other people claim this stuff works.

The 7018 created what I would consider to be normal weld beads, once I got it going. That was encouraging. The starting problem was just as bad with 7018 as with 6011.

what welder do you have?
they can run lower amps than it says. try to run on the higher amps side of the manufactures specs for the rod.
not all welders will run 6011 reliably.
7018 need to have the tip cleaned before restarting. a find a file is good, just make sure its not earthed!

CLEAN the metal. mill scale makes things harder.

try some 6013. runs on anything, good to start with and its still a useful rod.

[Oscar]

I agree it sounds like you were trying to run a bead on a small 2" x 2" piece of 20ga just laying on a metal surface not properly clamped. So tell us, exactly what part/piece were you trying to run a bead on?

[Chips O'Toole]

Thanks for the replies.

First, the welder is a Titanium Unlimited 200 from Harbor Freight. I got it so I would have a 120V MIG, but it also does DC stick and TIG. I am running it on 120.

Second, the metal is 1/8" by 2" hot-rolled steel. The clamp was attached securely. I didn't take the clamp apart and clean it before using it, however. It seems okay, because it works for MIG, and once I get 7018 going, everything works. I am going to check it and make sure there is no crud blocking the current.

I didn't clean the metal because I want to be able to weld things that aren't perfectly clean, and my understanding is that stick allows this. If I'm going to grind everything before I weld, I might as well use MIG.

I did not do anything to the tips of the rods. I figured that if they were willing to stick to the metal, they were also willing to strike an arc. Sounds like I was wrong about that.

I need to be able to use stick on 1/8" metal, because I will generally be welding metal under 1/4", so I need to be able to strike an arc on 1/8" steel.

[cj737]

for hot rolled, using 3/32 7018 I'd run closer to 95 amps. When I have a hard time striking an arc with stick rods it is generally du to too low of amp setting. Crank it up. If it is glowing red but strikes well, turn them down 3-4 amps each attempt. you will find a sweet spot on your machine to run them.

The 60xx rods at 3/32 I run around 60-65 amps.

[Chips O'Toole]

Thanks. Right now I'm finding out what the welder will do on 120, so it tops out at 70 amps.

If I can't make it work, I can always crank up the AlphaTIG and get a few more amps.

I need to get my 240 installed!

[Oscar]

70A should be enough for 2.4mm 6011, but it will be on the low-side for 7018. Might be OK for 1/8" steel, depending on the configuration. A deep fillet takes more power to weld than on an outside corner.

The tips of the rods shouldn't be a problem unless you're talking about re-strikes on 7018. 7018 electrode tips need to have the slag removed for a re-strike, where as other rods don't have such issues. A rough file that is not laying on the part nor metal table can be used to give the electrode a quick scrape.

[Chips O'Toole]

Today I went out and tried again. I used the 7018 at 70 amps, and I tried settings between 55 and 70 for the 6011. I got the settings from Youtube University.

I gave up on the match thing, because it doesn't seem to work at all. I had much better success starting arcs by making tiny circles as close to the steel as possible.

I don't get 6011 at all. The first rod worked fine, and I made several beads that looked just fine. The next rod gave me big, wide, flat welds that were irregular, and it stopped and started for no apparent reason. It was also much harder to start.

The 6011 got the metal extremely hot, and sometimes the rods got so hot I felt it through my glove. It seems like you have to shove this stuff right down on the metal and go like crazy. The rod disappears very fast.

The most likely explanation is that I am doing something wrong, but I can't help wondering if I got a funny box of rods.

The 7018 gave me a few starting problems, but nothing like yesterday. I can weld with this stuff right now. The welds would be nearly as nice as my MIG welds. I ran it at 70 amps.

I also gave the MIG a few squirts. I like the machine a lot. It just feels less clumsy than my Lincoln. Felt like I had more control. I guess the torch must be lighter because it's cheaper.

I can only imagine how great this machine would be if it came with instructions. Half the time, with MIG, I didn't know what the displays meant. The manual literally makes you guess at some things. I'm going to have to write my own instructions and keep them by the welder.

[tweake]

I don't get 6011 at all. The first rod worked fine, and I made several beads that looked just fine. The next rod gave me big, wide, flat welds that were irregular, and it stopped and started for no apparent reason. It was also much harder to start.

The 6011 got the metal extremely hot, and sometimes the rods got so hot I felt it through my glove. It seems like you have to shove this stuff right down on the metal and go like crazy. The rod disappears very fast.

don't be to surprised if 6011 is marginal to run on that machine.
by the sounds of it your holding to long an arc length. keep it really short. long arc length will make wider welds.
one of the issues with those type of welders is they are a mig machine first, stick/stick 2nd. often the stick voltage is on the low side. which means 6011 can be really border line at working. when you long arc it, arc voltage goes up but if machine cannot supply voltage it goes out.
also has the machine temp goes up the voltage can go down. so it may run fine for a while then start playing up. or on a hot day it won't run those rods as well.

i've got a similar sort of multi process machine and it has the same issues. ended up with separate stick,mig and tig machine.

[Chips O'Toole]

I saw that someone else didn't like the way this welder handled 6011.

Maybe I should dump this thing and, instead of going the cheap route, buy a serious tool from Esab.

It will only cost 4 or 5 times as much.

[tweake]

I saw that someone else didn't like the way this welder handled 6011.

Maybe I should dump this thing and, instead of going the cheap route, buy a serious tool from Esab.

It will only cost 4 or 5 times as much.

depends on what you need to use it for. how much stick would you actually do and do you need 6011. that multi should run rutile and basic rods no problem.

i have a separate small stick welder that runs 6011. its a lot more portable than the multi. i grab that for most stick welding especially if its outside work but i can use the multi for higher amps with rutile or basic rods if need be.
i always recommend to have a basic small stick welder. good to learn with, very handy to use and small enough to store. i would get one of those before upgrading your multi.