[silentneko]

I'm really new to this and I'm trying to work out a problem. I got the welding set up (Everlast PowerTig 185) in part to finish a project on my trailer. I need to weld thin washers onto the sides of a 2x3x1/8". I'm not having much success on my practice piece. Everything I do seems to melt the washer most times before I can run a good bead.

I've played with various amps for the sticks I have. 1/16" 6013, 3/32" 6013, 3/32" 6011, and 3/32" 7018.

What am I doing wrong here guys? I can tack it down ok, but can't seem to run a clean bead. It doesn't have to be super clean as it will be ground flush.

[silentneko]

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[Oscar]

Without seeing you attempt to weld it, I'd say you are using one or more of the following: incorrect amperage, incorrect electrode diameter, incorrect electrode angle, incorrect arc length, incorrect travel speed, incorrect electrode manipulation.

Let's start with you telling us which actual electrode you did use, and the amperage you used for it? Just giving a list of what's in your toolbox doesn't say much. It almost looks as if you tried to use every single one of those rods on a different washer. But for the most part, too large of a rod resulting in too much heat in combination with one of the aforementioned items in the first paragraph.

I hope that picture is not from the final part, because in that case, our advice won't mean much.

[tweake]

thin stuff is always difficult.
use the 1/16 6013. run it electrode negative. you will probably find cutting the electrodes in half will help reduce the shakes.
do long tacks, change position do another. move around. let it cool right down before you do near the edge. aim the weld on the 1/8 plate and wash onto the washer. will need to play with the amps a bit. but most important watch the puddle, if things start getting wide and out of control simply stop. move to the next bit. your welds on the test bit are way to big.

[silentneko]

Thank you. I will give it a go and post any improvements.

The pic is part of my test piece, and I did use every stick I had. I even tried TIG for a minute, but that went about as well.

[Oscar]

Thank you. I will give it a go and post any improvements.

The pic is part of my test piece, and I did use every stick I had. I even tried TIG for a minute, but that went about as well.

Ok, good. I'd use the 1/16" 6013, with the amperage near it's upper range or even just slightly above (about 55A if you can manage it), so you don't have the arc wandering around where you don't want it. Make sure you use a short arc length and direct it mostly at the base, and then wash it up a little onto the washer.

[silentneko]

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Well I tried these 4 with the 1/16" 6013. Amps from 35 up to 60. I tried many different angles too. Other then straight practice beads, which I got pretty consistent at, this is the first real welding attept/project. Any suggestions are welcome. Should I try swapping to DCEN?

[Oscar]

Whatever you did here, worked. No need to switch to DCEN, IMHO. Replicate what you did here. You achieved a decent bead profile while keeping the pigeons away. I hope you wrote down or remember your amperage. It's just a matter of practicing more.

[silentneko]

I think I was around 45amps there. Writings it down would be smart, I'm not. I think that's also where I tried to walk the stick back into the puddle a bit.
Should I be angling the rod into the joint or away from it?

[Oscar]

I think I was around 45amps there. Writings it down would be smart, I'm not. I think that's also where I tried to walk the stick back into the puddle a bit.
Should I be angling the rod into the joint or away from it?

It should be angled somewhat into the joint. This is where your practice comes in. Start doing proper practice. Change only 1 thing at a time. Or else you'll end up where you started. As I'm sure you've already seen, if you angle it too much towards the washer, you'll end up blowing out the edge. Keep practicing. Write things down. Buy more washers, and find more practice steel until you can weld around the whole washer like that one portion that I circled.

Roughly what I would be doing/attempting, even though it doesn't show the actual technique where one washes the puddle slightly towards the washer. Very intricate movements that require a lot of practice.

[tweake]

. I think that's also where I tried to walk the stick back into the puddle a bit.

do a straight drag motion only. no going back or whipping. you can play with drag angle a bit. 6013 is prone to slag inclusion so you want the arc and rod angle to blow the slag back a bit.
keep the arc tight even if your dragging the rod (flux) on the steel.

DCEN, probably do not need to as i think you actually got it about right at one point without it.

[silentneko]

Thank you guys. I'll give it a go in the morning. I'll try as you suggest. I'll do small areas moving the amps up 5 at a time until it works better and post the results.

[Simclardy]

I hate stick welding thin parts. Others have already said it in different ways but i would focus on welding a nice circle on your 1/8" plate without the washer. Then try with the washer and just nibble the edge of the washer.
Tig welding has more variables than stick but it's worth the effort to learn for jobs like this.
The arc start on stick is just not nice so you burn back over it or start on a tab. For this reason it is brutal to try and weld thin metal with tight radius'. Imagine welding a bike frame with stick lol! Im sure there are guys out there than can but geez.
Cheers

Ps.
Don't get me wrong your project is very doable


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[silentneko]

I tried to TIG a few at first, but I'm just not at all skilled at it yet. I ended up with similar results or worse, and figured maybe the stick is the better process for this since I'll be grinding it back down anyway. Maybe not?

Given the choice, and no real experience which would you guys go with ?

[tweake]

I tried to TIG a few at first, but I'm just not at all skilled at it yet. I ended up with similar results or worse, and figured maybe the stick is the better process for this since I'll be grinding it back down anyway. Maybe not?

Given the choice, and no real experience which would you guys go with ?

seeing as its on a trailer i would still go with stick.

i don't have to much trouble with thin steel. one of my practise pieces was thin wall square tubing done with 3/32 6013.
i suspect part of the issue is your welds are just to big. probably not moving fast enough travel speed. sorry i'm not really skilled enough to explain how to keep them small, i just look at the puddle and move accordingly.

if you have real issues try DCEN. the other tip is to clamp the washers down nice and hard. if there is a gap under the edge the washer will melt a lot faster.

if you can't do it with stick i highly doubt you will do it with tig. tig is like a more complicated version of stick.

[snoeproe]

This is not going well.
You have little weld on the joint area between each piece. Most of your weld is on one piece or the other.
I can see the one inside tack you made, your arc is way too long and ate away the washer.
I don't think you have the concept of arc length control yet with stick. Your also not seeing the puddle and ensuring its going into each piece before traveling along the joint. Your valleys left between each piece now are filled with slag and will be difficult to get a proper weld on without grinding everything off.

[silentneko]

If I were welding 2 pieces of thin material I don't think I'd have any issues, but trying to secure a washer that is maybe 16-18ga to the 1/8" is really getting me. I haven't found any good videos of this scenario with stick, mostly tig and a few mig vids.

Well I spent a few hours this morning and went through all the ranges and sticks again. Yes I took notes. The 1/16" 6013 sticks are to thin, the rod burns so fast I can't keep up with it, and it flops around a lot too. The best success I found was the 3/32" 6013 at 70 amps. However I couldn't consistantly repeat it. I basically dragged it through the joint at a slight angle as fast as it would burn and with virtually no gap. I let gravity keep the pressure and just guided the stinger, but it's hard to control around a tight radius. I am almost out of washers now, and time as I need this done within the week.

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[Simclardy]

How does your straight welds look.
Maybe practice straight runs and then add little challenges. Tig is more complicated but what i like is you can light up, dab and stop, reposition, light up, dab and tapper off. Not saying i would do that but you have much more control and it is a slower process which in this case is fine.

Just curious, what is the project for? What's the goal?
Cheers

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[silentneko]

The project is a trailer for a boat that I am converting to a removable tongue. The washers are to take up the movement from the parts which have about 1/8" play.

Straight beads seem to be ok. I ran a few under the washers to make sure I still could. I switched back to tig, and got one quarter of a washer near perfect, then couldn't duplicate it. So back to stick I went. I've gone through 40 washers and a tone of sticks and amps. I gotta move this boat around soon as its gotta be inspected. I'm at a loss.

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[Oscar]

There is no shortcut. Keep practicing holding a tight arc, consistent travel speed, and make sure you are looking at the puddle clearly at all times. No one said it was going to be easy.

[silentneko]

I didn't expect to be great out of the gate on this, but I did expect some measurable amount of success. Even if it wasn't pretty. I was able to weld small scraps of 1/8" plate fairly clean with good penetration, but these thin washers are a pain.

The 1/16" 6013 rods I have seem the best suited. However they burn so fast I can't keep my angle steady going around the radius. The next best to date are the 3/32" 6013, but they tend to burn up the washer after about a second. Since it's all going to be ground down, is it possible to do it in multiple passes maybe? A quick tack and then a filler run?

[JayWal]

If they're just spacers do they need a full weld all around? Couple heavy tacks and you're not gonna peel em of..

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[silentneko]

The ones on the boat side will be tacked and thru bolted. The ones on the removable tongue side will be slid in and pinned in place. My thoughts are since it will be moved in and out many times, tacks might break after a while.

[Oscar]

I didn't expect to be great out of the gate on this, but I did expect some measurable amount of success. Even if it wasn't pretty. I was able to weld small scraps of 1/8" plate fairly clean with good penetration, but these thin washers are a pain.

The 1/16" 6013 rods I have seem the best suited. However they burn so fast I can't keep my angle steady going around the radius. The next best to date are the 3/32" 6013, but they tend to burn up the washer after about a second. Since it's all going to be ground down, is it possible to do it in multiple passes maybe? A quick tack and then a filler run?

Honestly, it can also be done with 3/32" rods. It can also be done with 1/8" electrodes. Can anyone do it? Nope. I probably couldn't with 1/8", but perhaps with 3/32". I'm sure a very skilled weldor can do it with practically any size electrode. My point is, you can achieve success through many ways, but you have to practice. Stick welding skill acquisition is definitely up there in terms of difficulty.

[Simclardy]

How about tig welding without filler? You won't get the strength but i don't think it will matter for what you are doing.
I assume the washers are raw steel? You don't want to be working with zinc or any other crap on them. It will not go well. I was welding some sch 40 galvy pipe. I sanded the pipe with a flap disc and it was welding like crap. I put the grinder to it and really dug in and that cleared it up.
Most washers i see have some type finish, i would probably cut some squares out of sheet metal, clean mill scale and go to town.
Cheers

1/2" black pipe to 3"sch 40 galvanized pipe

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