Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects
qwerty12
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Ok folks as I promissed here are pictures of my awfull welds....because my camera is finaly back :)

Most of welds are old ones so there is corosion on them...buth its enought(I think) to you to see where do I make mistakes and help me with that.

So here I am posting 36 pictures of my welds...look at them and say whats the problem with my welding.

P.S. All welds are made with telwin nordica 4.181 AC welder. Rods that I use are EZ 11-f, on american standard they are 6013 and they are the only ones I can buy in my town. Thicknes of rods is 3.2 mm, amperage I used in those weld is from 90 to 160 amps.


Ok...here is one sqare pipe weld. Not actualy a bad one :)
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2 pieces of an old practise...looks terible
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2 L profiles joined in one...not so bad buth not so good
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old straight practise welds...there is lot of corosion on them buth you can see they are bad
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more bad welds
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Weld with circular rod motion...slag looks nice and its easy to remowe buht under the slag not so nice weld
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One weld with go straight and go back rood motion...slag looks nice weld looks bad :)
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And finaly...t joints...My badeest welding dreams...here you can clearly see what does happens like on the first ms paint image of this topic...welding metal goes only on one side of metal: Slag looks nice buth under slag is almost no joint...
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Other parth of T joint...I used bigger amperage and was going slowly...much better looking weld...buth stil got places where slag is traped in weld...
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other side of T joint looks realy realy bad
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And the last picture is one straight weld buth with 5mm rod on 160 amps...also looks bad :)
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I hope that I have provided you with enought pictures although they are long ago welded and rusty.

So please look at the pictures and give me advices how to correct those mistakes
GWD
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Great photos! They clear things up so the real weldors can give some suggestions.

It looks to me (a farm weldor) that the travel speed could be more consistent. There is a transition from a good weld to a slag-trapped weld and back and forth along the T joint.

It also appear that a little work on a weave technique would improve the situation. Not much is needed. Just let the rod sit on one plate for a second, then hurry across the middle, and let it sit on the other plate for a second. As you hurry back to the first plate move in the direction of the weld just a bit. Continue on with the same pattern.

You might be comfortable with a "U" pattern, "V" pattern, or diagonal "/", then "\" pattern. Note: the typed pattern is more extreme than the pattern you'd use on the weld. Test to see which one works best for you.

The weave doesn't have to be much more than 1/8" to 1/4". Try different patterns to find the sweet spot.

Edit: Oh, and don't be too hard on yourself. Things will work out.
qwerty12
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Well, thanks werry much on your best advices. And sorry to all on my bad englihs...somethimes i think that me myself do not understand what do I type... I am an god damn bosnian serb and in our language there is so much swearing and courses that we normaly use(as the americans use: OK, good day, hello) so if I would translate directly what I am speaking to you it would bee something like what the fucking hell is with this fucking weld, is the damn amperage correct or i am running the rod bitch to fast god damn it :lol: :lol: :lol: Buth english is waaay to sparsely with swearing and courses so I must type wery slow :)


I am not to hard on myself...I just like to do things right. No matter is it glass polishing, eggs cooking, pencil sharpening or arc welding...I like to do it the best I can...buth those weld do not look nice no matter how hard I try. Ofcourse I am a total begginer buth there is werry les advance in my welding quality...


I will try ofcourse to play with tips that you provided to me.

One thing that ocured to me now...welding speed... Here is one litle paint picture:
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On all weld I used welding speed like one on the most left picture...I use rod angle between 45 and 90 degrees. And I watch the puddle. When I have nice puddle at the start I go on. When it becomes tinner I slow down. When is to fat i speed up.

Buth...when I slow down more like most people say to me...puddle goes in front of the electrode(I still do 10 to 30 angle) and slag goes into the weld wich is bad. When I travel at that lower speed I tried to give the rod much mor angle(picutre 3 or most right one) there is no slag in the weld...buth weld looks blown out. it is just on the top of the metal fusion is bad penetration is week.

When I do things like on the middle picture...angle between 90 and 45 degrees, and lover the apms so the puddle dont goes in front of the rod...the weld looks too high and narrow, penetration is week and rod sticks werry much.

So...I do not know what to do...
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GWD is right... Don't beat yourself up. It'll come, and once you have it, you'll wonder why it took so long.

Those aren't so bad as you think. Each is a learning experience.

You said you're using the equivalent of 6013, at 3.2mm. For flat-postion groove welds and fillets, you should work between 120-140 amps (if your machine reads accurately) I always liked 125A, but it's been a long while since I welded on AC. You also said in an earlier post that when you slow down, you get more spatter. That's normal, and there are fixes for it. Ignore it for now, and focus on making the bead look like you want it to.

On a fillet weld (tee-joint), your rod should be 45* to each plate (this is a learning position, you'll change a bit later), and you should be pointing back at where your welding about 30* (again, you'll change this with experience), meaning your hands are ahead of where you're welding. You should be pushing just a bit, straight toward the joint, ahead of the weld. (You're not pushing toward the puddle, at that 30*, but straight to the joint, well ahead of where the weld is happening. Dragging it, like dragging a tree-branch to cover your tracks... down, not back.) Don't try to pull the rod forward, either, to go faster. When you find the sweet spot, the rod will do the welding, and you're just holding it where it needs to be.

You have enough of an idea at this point it would be good for you to watch someone (close--hood to hood) with experience. It would save you some time.

Steve S
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After reading your reply (before my post), I'm concerned that the rod (flux) quality may be an issue. You seem to be doing much of what I suggested.

Do you have an economical way to dry your rods? An hour or two in a 250*F (120*C) oven?

Steve S
qwerty12
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Well I keep my rods in a room inw ich I sleep they are not in garage so they should be dry enought...but I will try to put them in my cooking oven or so coled electric stove...it has a dialing gauge and can bee set from 75 to 250 C so will try.

Hope they wont smell nice so I wont eat them like fried potatoes :lol:
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Hey,

You seem to have the same kind of sense of humour as Australians.

Mick
qwerty12
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Whell thats because we are relatives. My grandmother and your grandmother dried underwear under the same sun. :lol:

Thats an old serbian saying. Buth quite bad translation I have for it.

Australian humor is nice to me. Dont kinda like british like humor...they are toooo much civilized on that question. We here like villager type of humor :lol:


And where is the damn bartender my mug of bear is almost empty :o
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qwerty12 wrote: My grandmother and your grandmother dried underwear under the same sun. :lol:
That may not lose as much in translation as you might think.

I smiled when I read that. My aunt said something similar... The Pope's drawers dry in the same air as yours... :lol:

Steve S
qwerty12
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

with one exception...we here do not have pope, we have patriarch...and since they where mantle it is a great question do they at all whear drawers :lol:
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LMFAO!!!
qwerty12
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Untill more people replyes on "how to correct bad weld pictures"
I will ask few more questions....

Is it possible to repair car bodywork with arc welding.

I posted one topic abouth thin mettal here some time ago...made myself few axhausts on my bike out of 1mm metal...and they work today as new.

Buth...got an old car that is realy rusty...and asking is it posible to fix it completly with arc welding ? 1.6 or 2mm rods....55 to 70 amps?
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It can be done, but it will work you. Short bursts of arc to fuse the metal, then drag the rod across a brick or a file to break the flux off it so you can strike the next arc.

It's a pain in the ass, but you can do it.

Steve S
qwerty12
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is the welding done that way at same quality like one with co2?
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Hey,

Doing it the way otto suggests will get the job done but it will of low quality compared to other processes.

Mick
qwerty12
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what about plug welding...
wich welding type is beter to go straight butt or owerlap weld...run one spot and then run one inch no weld and than run one spot...


or to drill one inch between holes and then owerlap sheets and do a plug welds


what holds better
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Plug welding is not unlike the original spot-welds used in auto construction.

If you have the equipment to "lap" body panels, I'd absolutely do plug (rosette) welds to join them. You will have very little distortion in the metal, and it's more then strong enough for body panels. Just fill the joints with body fillers like the original manufacturer did. If you want high precision, "lead" them like the old-school body men.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Did not quite understood abouth that "lead" and laping panels
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I believe its lead, the metal lead, chem symbol Pb. Used in auto work for solder like joins.

Mick
qwerty12
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Well was practising today a little bit...and it felt out just fine. Eaven got ya a litlle video to see me doing a weld :lol:

who d` fuck said arc welder is bad for sheet metal...well he was werry wrong ;)
arc welder is the best thing on eart for sheet metal if you do not have any other welder :lol:

here is the video
http://youtu.be/-JUBVs-Q09M


I used 3.2mm (please sorry for my metric measures...god damn hypis here invented metric few milion years ago...and your units in inches yards feets and those funny number 2/123 4/12 3/16 unfortunaly does not means anything to me. I just hope that metric symbols mean something to you...elswhere if not we are not on the same radio wawe...so we cant listen to the Jimmy Hendri)
Wel...as I said...I used 3.2mm electrode....telwin nordica 4.181 AC welder...power here is 220 V 50-60Hz. I turned it Just slightly over 80 amps and it saw damn good.

Sheet metal...well...got an old sheet metal plate that was laying round the house for abouth 20 years :) originaly it was maybe 1mm...rust eroded it to 0.8mm
I did not grinded it at all...kinda like working that way...if I am able to get enought practise to do nice weld on 0.8mm old rusty sheet plate...whel than 1mm clean metal sheet and nice prepaired joint will be easy thing to me...


so I just driled few holes and started welding.

Weld where just nice. I filmed last sheet peace and one before that how I hammer those 2 peaces. Joint wont fall apart eawen If I hammer it so strong that sheet bends completly. Only one sheet peace(filmed) broke apart and that was not joint brake buth rather the metal around joint separated from brute hammer power I gave it :)
There is little burn trought most plates(must practise on that) buth whats most important 2 welded peaces hold like hell together


One werry funny thing I noticed on welding thin up to 1mm max metal shet...cutting heat can be done not only with amperage settings buth also with electrode diamether...for example...my machine is able to do from 55 to 160 amps. and I have 1.6mm 2mm 2.5 and 3.2 electrodes.



Most of folks would say...use 1.6 electrode and 55 amps because its just 0.8mm thin sheet plate.

Buth 55 amps seams to be quite enought to melt 1.6 rod and there is exesive heat left that burns holes in metal like in swiss chese...
if amperage turned just litle more high than 1.6 rod acts like some laser cutting tool.

On the other hand...I filmed this video with 3.2mm rod wich is not a common sense compared to 0.8sheet metal....buth funny thing is....3.2rod neads at least 95 to 120 amps to melt easy...and when i turned my muchine to 80 amps electrode melted realy hevy. Its not enought amperage to melt the rod quickly. So the big heat instead of driling a hole in sheet metal plate is waisted on the proces of rod melting.
You must hold realy tight arc gap between metal and the rod buth at the end it does not burns trought sheet(mostly) and weld looks just nice and video shows that it holds nice.

So funny thing on 0.8mm sheet metal...you got less burn trought with 3.2electrode and 80amps than with 1.6mm and 55 amps.






Sorry for the big text...hope you understood my bad english...

Anny coments, tips, critics, jokes, and enything else with or without welding tematics is greatly welcomed here by me...so type a few words please.



And I hope you like my video :lol:
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Hey, GOOD on ya!!!

Most of us know metric... You scoff at SAE units, but when you know them, they work.

Your reference to radio frequencies amused me. They're universally in cycles/second (Hz), NOT related to a ten-base unit like the metric system, but the only thing available until we measure time in a new way. (Convert cycles per second to cycles per minute, and you'll see what I mean.)

I'm thrilled you've found the solution, especially since you seem to have found it yourself.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Here is some pictures of my rusted old car repair.

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Welded 1mm sheet using 2.5mm rods, abouth 80 85 amps currens. AC ofcourse :) Car panels are 0.8mm thin

Ower that I have put some anticorosive base paint and than fiber filer.


What do you say ?
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Looks like you got the job done!

A little filler, a little sanding, and it'll look like new.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Thanks wery much on replay.

My welds are not jet nice...still needs lot of practise...buth I hope One day it will be good. One importatnt thing is that all those welds do work....they hold nice. I tried to hammer them of with 5kg hammer and they holded without problems.

one thing that constantly bothers me is poor fusion between car panel and welded metal peace. I do not know how to explain it to you buth the rod metal just goes on 2 sides. it melts one drop on the sheet metal and other drop goes on car panel. and there is no metal between that point.

Here is my picture and arows showing what I mean
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arows with numero uno shows what I mean arows with numero due showing what seams to me a good weld.
And it is very hard to me to obtain to all welds to look like number 2. You all know the problem. If you lower the amperage rod sticks like hell. if you put more amps it burns trought panel and sheet metal. And if you hold even on small amps lot of time it bornt stought. on the other side if you hold too litle time there is no fusion between 2 sheets.


Please help me correct those mistakes...I do not know what metod to do to eliminate those erors.


Here is one picture i found today on web. its a pipe and sheet weld that has similar problems like those mine. Just notice the weld...rod material is all gone on 2 sides of welding plates and there is no filler metal between 2 welded plates...so there is no good fusion.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/larphea ... a.jpg.html

how to correct this erors on thin sheet metal?
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The problem is, you're stuck with the most difficult way to do what you're doing. That makes your results rather impressive.

For control when stick-welding, your rod should be no thicker than the material you're welding, and should be thinner. And no one makes a .08mm stick-rod. If they did, it would be so flexible I'm not sure you could control it. That's why MIG is the usual process for what you're doing. The electrode can be as small as .58mm and run in short bursts controlled by a trigger.

All I can suggest is to use the thinnest stick-rod you can find, and keep practicing. Simply striking an arc with a 1.5mm rod requires more current than .08mm metal can take for more than an instant.

Steve S
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