Stick Welding Tips, Certification tests, machines, projects
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LMFAO!!!
qwerty12
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Untill more people replyes on "how to correct bad weld pictures"
I will ask few more questions....

Is it possible to repair car bodywork with arc welding.

I posted one topic abouth thin mettal here some time ago...made myself few axhausts on my bike out of 1mm metal...and they work today as new.

Buth...got an old car that is realy rusty...and asking is it posible to fix it completly with arc welding ? 1.6 or 2mm rods....55 to 70 amps?
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It can be done, but it will work you. Short bursts of arc to fuse the metal, then drag the rod across a brick or a file to break the flux off it so you can strike the next arc.

It's a pain in the ass, but you can do it.

Steve S
qwerty12
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is the welding done that way at same quality like one with co2?
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Hey,

Doing it the way otto suggests will get the job done but it will of low quality compared to other processes.

Mick
qwerty12
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what about plug welding...
wich welding type is beter to go straight butt or owerlap weld...run one spot and then run one inch no weld and than run one spot...


or to drill one inch between holes and then owerlap sheets and do a plug welds


what holds better
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Plug welding is not unlike the original spot-welds used in auto construction.

If you have the equipment to "lap" body panels, I'd absolutely do plug (rosette) welds to join them. You will have very little distortion in the metal, and it's more then strong enough for body panels. Just fill the joints with body fillers like the original manufacturer did. If you want high precision, "lead" them like the old-school body men.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Did not quite understood abouth that "lead" and laping panels
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I believe its lead, the metal lead, chem symbol Pb. Used in auto work for solder like joins.

Mick
qwerty12
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Well was practising today a little bit...and it felt out just fine. Eaven got ya a litlle video to see me doing a weld :lol:

who d` fuck said arc welder is bad for sheet metal...well he was werry wrong ;)
arc welder is the best thing on eart for sheet metal if you do not have any other welder :lol:

here is the video
http://youtu.be/-JUBVs-Q09M


I used 3.2mm (please sorry for my metric measures...god damn hypis here invented metric few milion years ago...and your units in inches yards feets and those funny number 2/123 4/12 3/16 unfortunaly does not means anything to me. I just hope that metric symbols mean something to you...elswhere if not we are not on the same radio wawe...so we cant listen to the Jimmy Hendri)
Wel...as I said...I used 3.2mm electrode....telwin nordica 4.181 AC welder...power here is 220 V 50-60Hz. I turned it Just slightly over 80 amps and it saw damn good.

Sheet metal...well...got an old sheet metal plate that was laying round the house for abouth 20 years :) originaly it was maybe 1mm...rust eroded it to 0.8mm
I did not grinded it at all...kinda like working that way...if I am able to get enought practise to do nice weld on 0.8mm old rusty sheet plate...whel than 1mm clean metal sheet and nice prepaired joint will be easy thing to me...


so I just driled few holes and started welding.

Weld where just nice. I filmed last sheet peace and one before that how I hammer those 2 peaces. Joint wont fall apart eawen If I hammer it so strong that sheet bends completly. Only one sheet peace(filmed) broke apart and that was not joint brake buth rather the metal around joint separated from brute hammer power I gave it :)
There is little burn trought most plates(must practise on that) buth whats most important 2 welded peaces hold like hell together


One werry funny thing I noticed on welding thin up to 1mm max metal shet...cutting heat can be done not only with amperage settings buth also with electrode diamether...for example...my machine is able to do from 55 to 160 amps. and I have 1.6mm 2mm 2.5 and 3.2 electrodes.



Most of folks would say...use 1.6 electrode and 55 amps because its just 0.8mm thin sheet plate.

Buth 55 amps seams to be quite enought to melt 1.6 rod and there is exesive heat left that burns holes in metal like in swiss chese...
if amperage turned just litle more high than 1.6 rod acts like some laser cutting tool.

On the other hand...I filmed this video with 3.2mm rod wich is not a common sense compared to 0.8sheet metal....buth funny thing is....3.2rod neads at least 95 to 120 amps to melt easy...and when i turned my muchine to 80 amps electrode melted realy hevy. Its not enought amperage to melt the rod quickly. So the big heat instead of driling a hole in sheet metal plate is waisted on the proces of rod melting.
You must hold realy tight arc gap between metal and the rod buth at the end it does not burns trought sheet(mostly) and weld looks just nice and video shows that it holds nice.

So funny thing on 0.8mm sheet metal...you got less burn trought with 3.2electrode and 80amps than with 1.6mm and 55 amps.






Sorry for the big text...hope you understood my bad english...

Anny coments, tips, critics, jokes, and enything else with or without welding tematics is greatly welcomed here by me...so type a few words please.



And I hope you like my video :lol:
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Hey, GOOD on ya!!!

Most of us know metric... You scoff at SAE units, but when you know them, they work.

Your reference to radio frequencies amused me. They're universally in cycles/second (Hz), NOT related to a ten-base unit like the metric system, but the only thing available until we measure time in a new way. (Convert cycles per second to cycles per minute, and you'll see what I mean.)

I'm thrilled you've found the solution, especially since you seem to have found it yourself.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Here is some pictures of my rusted old car repair.

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Welded 1mm sheet using 2.5mm rods, abouth 80 85 amps currens. AC ofcourse :) Car panels are 0.8mm thin

Ower that I have put some anticorosive base paint and than fiber filer.


What do you say ?
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Looks like you got the job done!

A little filler, a little sanding, and it'll look like new.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Thanks wery much on replay.

My welds are not jet nice...still needs lot of practise...buth I hope One day it will be good. One importatnt thing is that all those welds do work....they hold nice. I tried to hammer them of with 5kg hammer and they holded without problems.

one thing that constantly bothers me is poor fusion between car panel and welded metal peace. I do not know how to explain it to you buth the rod metal just goes on 2 sides. it melts one drop on the sheet metal and other drop goes on car panel. and there is no metal between that point.

Here is my picture and arows showing what I mean
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arows with numero uno shows what I mean arows with numero due showing what seams to me a good weld.
And it is very hard to me to obtain to all welds to look like number 2. You all know the problem. If you lower the amperage rod sticks like hell. if you put more amps it burns trought panel and sheet metal. And if you hold even on small amps lot of time it bornt stought. on the other side if you hold too litle time there is no fusion between 2 sheets.


Please help me correct those mistakes...I do not know what metod to do to eliminate those erors.


Here is one picture i found today on web. its a pipe and sheet weld that has similar problems like those mine. Just notice the weld...rod material is all gone on 2 sides of welding plates and there is no filler metal between 2 welded plates...so there is no good fusion.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/larphea ... a.jpg.html

how to correct this erors on thin sheet metal?
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The problem is, you're stuck with the most difficult way to do what you're doing. That makes your results rather impressive.

For control when stick-welding, your rod should be no thicker than the material you're welding, and should be thinner. And no one makes a .08mm stick-rod. If they did, it would be so flexible I'm not sure you could control it. That's why MIG is the usual process for what you're doing. The electrode can be as small as .58mm and run in short bursts controlled by a trigger.

All I can suggest is to use the thinnest stick-rod you can find, and keep practicing. Simply striking an arc with a 1.5mm rod requires more current than .08mm metal can take for more than an instant.

Steve S
qwerty12
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Well I preaty much understand all things you spoke to me.
Backside od that story is that I live in a very poor country. For the simple egzample... one small hoby mig welder(30-160A 0.6 to 0.8 wire) costs same money amount as my old car+my arc welder. It is abouth the same equivalent as my 2 mounts salary.
And one MIG welder I could aford for 2 mount of hard work only in case that in those 2 mounts I do not eat and drink anything, do not pay taxes, do not pay electric and wather and phone and internet bils...

So a MIG welder is curently realy unaviable to me...

Must fight with this telwin welder until better days will come, and if they dont...will dye burning rods like old school welding gangsta :lol:



Talking abouth thinn rods... i can buy 1.6 2 2.5 3.2 4 5 mm rods here. and did tryed all of them. Problem is welding current. my welder goes from 160 to 55 amps. and on lower amperage it is much unstable. its realy hard to get arc going on 55 amps. althought i can manage that to.


simple thing is happening 55amps is way to much on 1.6 and 2mm rods. they do not stick and arc goes easy buth it brings way to much heat on metal.

beleave me or not...i do have less burntrought with 2.5mm rods and 80 to 85 amps than with 1.6 rods on 55 amps.


So...It is a in this moment only solution for me to use bigger rods like 2.5mm and 80 amps curent. that curent is just slighty enought to melt the rod buth not to much heat goes on sheet metal and it does not burns trought.


on the other hand using 55 amps and 1.6mm rods I just end with my sheet metal foll of holes like some swiss chese
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All I can say, is when you find something that works, keep doing it.

And what you've been doing seems to work. Not perfectly, but you take what you can get, right?

Practice will make you better, and with enough practice you might make the MIG guys look foolish.

Keep doing what you're doing, and you can only get better.

Steve S
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Qwerty12, One thing I can think of that might help you is if you can find an old piece of copper to hold behind where you are welding to stop the burn through. It would have to be fairly thick and I'm not sure how you can hold it there while you use a hand held shield.

Another thing that might help is try to weld to the other welds after they have been cleaned of the slag to fill in the holes as the weld should be thicker than the rusty panels. Weld in short strings of horizontal welds rather than trying to go up or downhill. 6013 rods are flat position only and will trap slag otherwise causing the holes within your welds.

Steve is right about you trying to weld car body panels with the worst possible combination of equipment that I can think of. The fact that you are getting anything welded together with the equiptment you are using is amazing to me. Most of us can only imagine working a month for $200 and not being able to buy something even if we have the money to do so.

We have a saying in the US, "If there's a will, there's a way". Keep trying and good luck.

Len
Now go melt something.
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Len
qwerty12
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Big thanks to all.
Well i might find a piece of copper and try with it. Holding it with small clamps will be fine.

Welding on old weld is always a nice thing. Weld material tends to bi thicker and does not burntrought as it seams to be also stronger than a sheet metal. Only one thing there is not nice :lol: Must do kit if chuoing grinding and then welding and then again chiping and grinding. Buth what else man can do than a be patient one in those burning situations 8-)

For the 6013 rods...well you got me there. I thout that all 6011 and 6013 rods are ALL welding position, buth it seams that I was wrong.

Buth eather they are or not all position rods...must weld with them vertical horizontal and overhead. Its much easyer to fight with slag then to turn a car on its roof. Must then weld wrecked roof afther that :lol:
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I've welded all positions with 6013, and from what I've read, it's common in Australia in particular to weld pipe roots with 6013, where 6010 and 6011 are hard to find.

I don't LIKE to weld overhead with 6013, because of the spatter and slag dripping on me... :shock:

Steve S
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another solution utilizing a buzz box nobody mentioned is brazing with a carbon arc torch. this works on ultra light material better than shielded arc welding. there's even at least one video on you-tube called of all things,"brazing with a carbon arc torch". as my old oma use to say, there's more than one way to shuck an oyster.
qwerty12
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Well I had a verry nasty and big hole at front of my rear wheel, on my old rusry beast :lol:
Well done much to fix it today. buth did not catched all the work on camera...damn rain fu*ked me all day. it rains and then it stops and sun shines, and than it rains again :o

Here are few pictures so you can see my buz box working it down...

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enjoy :lol:
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Qwerty12,

Looks like by the time you're finished it will be made of more 6013 rod than Opal. Who knows, maybe you can start a car manufacturing plant using just your buzz box and a lot of 6013 rods.

Len
Now go melt something.
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Len
qwerty12
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well it may look so buth it does not consumes rods much...only few rods went on all that welding...and 1kg of them is 3.3 usd ant that is not expencive. when you weld thin sheeet with 2.5mm rod and 80 amps...you do it in a start and stop quickly motion so rods last long.



and talking abouth factory...well I only need some big garrage(do not have anny) and a container full of sheet metal and few boxes of rods...I could make you a car :D well maye it would took me a year or two buth I could make it somehow :lol:
just need someone to rent me his garage, give me some sheet metal and rods, and pay electrisity bills for my buzzzz box :lol:
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If we could all find that guy we would all be happy welders. Earlier when you said it rained then the sun shines and then rain again I thought we might be neighbors. Sounds a lot like Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania. Glad to see your welds are looking a little better.

Len
Last edited by Braehill on Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now go melt something.
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Len
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