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Beginner welding problems

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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby Otto Nobedder » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:18 pm

Hey, GOOD on ya!!!

Most of us know metric... You scoff at SAE units, but when you know them, they work.

Your reference to radio frequencies amused me. They're universally in cycles/second (Hz), NOT related to a ten-base unit like the metric system, but the only thing available until we measure time in a new way. (Convert cycles per second to cycles per minute, and you'll see what I mean.)

I'm thrilled you've found the solution, especially since you seem to have found it yourself.

Steve S
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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby qwerty12 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:54 am

Here is some pictures of my rusted old car repair.

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Welded 1mm sheet using 2.5mm rods, abouth 80 85 amps currens. AC ofcourse :) Car panels are 0.8mm thin

Ower that I have put some anticorosive base paint and than fiber filer.


What do you say ?
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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby Otto Nobedder » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:24 pm

Looks like you got the job done!

A little filler, a little sanding, and it'll look like new.

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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby qwerty12 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:43 pm

Thanks wery much on replay.

My welds are not jet nice...still needs lot of practise...buth I hope One day it will be good. One importatnt thing is that all those welds do work....they hold nice. I tried to hammer them of with 5kg hammer and they holded without problems.

one thing that constantly bothers me is poor fusion between car panel and welded metal peace. I do not know how to explain it to you buth the rod metal just goes on 2 sides. it melts one drop on the sheet metal and other drop goes on car panel. and there is no metal between that point.

Here is my picture and arows showing what I mean
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arows with numero uno shows what I mean arows with numero due showing what seams to me a good weld.
And it is very hard to me to obtain to all welds to look like number 2. You all know the problem. If you lower the amperage rod sticks like hell. if you put more amps it burns trought panel and sheet metal. And if you hold even on small amps lot of time it bornt stought. on the other side if you hold too litle time there is no fusion between 2 sheets.


Please help me correct those mistakes...I do not know what metod to do to eliminate those erors.


Here is one picture i found today on web. its a pipe and sheet weld that has similar problems like those mine. Just notice the weld...rod material is all gone on 2 sides of welding plates and there is no filler metal between 2 welded plates...so there is no good fusion.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/larphea ... a.jpg.html

how to correct this erors on thin sheet metal?
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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby Otto Nobedder » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:43 pm

The problem is, you're stuck with the most difficult way to do what you're doing. That makes your results rather impressive.

For control when stick-welding, your rod should be no thicker than the material you're welding, and should be thinner. And no one makes a .08mm stick-rod. If they did, it would be so flexible I'm not sure you could control it. That's why MIG is the usual process for what you're doing. The electrode can be as small as .58mm and run in short bursts controlled by a trigger.

All I can suggest is to use the thinnest stick-rod you can find, and keep practicing. Simply striking an arc with a 1.5mm rod requires more current than .08mm metal can take for more than an instant.

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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby qwerty12 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:20 pm

Well I preaty much understand all things you spoke to me.
Backside od that story is that I live in a very poor country. For the simple egzample... one small hoby mig welder(30-160A 0.6 to 0.8 wire) costs same money amount as my old car+my arc welder. It is abouth the same equivalent as my 2 mounts salary.
And one MIG welder I could aford for 2 mount of hard work only in case that in those 2 mounts I do not eat and drink anything, do not pay taxes, do not pay electric and wather and phone and internet bils...

So a MIG welder is curently realy unaviable to me...

Must fight with this telwin welder until better days will come, and if they dont...will dye burning rods like old school welding gangsta :lol:



Talking abouth thinn rods... i can buy 1.6 2 2.5 3.2 4 5 mm rods here. and did tryed all of them. Problem is welding current. my welder goes from 160 to 55 amps. and on lower amperage it is much unstable. its realy hard to get arc going on 55 amps. althought i can manage that to.


simple thing is happening 55amps is way to much on 1.6 and 2mm rods. they do not stick and arc goes easy buth it brings way to much heat on metal.

beleave me or not...i do have less burntrought with 2.5mm rods and 80 to 85 amps than with 1.6 rods on 55 amps.


So...It is a in this moment only solution for me to use bigger rods like 2.5mm and 80 amps curent. that curent is just slighty enought to melt the rod buth not to much heat goes on sheet metal and it does not burns trought.


on the other hand using 55 amps and 1.6mm rods I just end with my sheet metal foll of holes like some swiss chese
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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby Otto Nobedder » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:05 pm

All I can say, is when you find something that works, keep doing it.

And what you've been doing seems to work. Not perfectly, but you take what you can get, right?

Practice will make you better, and with enough practice you might make the MIG guys look foolish.

Keep doing what you're doing, and you can only get better.

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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby Braehill » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:24 pm

Qwerty12, One thing I can think of that might help you is if you can find an old piece of copper to hold behind where you are welding to stop the burn through. It would have to be fairly thick and I'm not sure how you can hold it there while you use a hand held shield.

Another thing that might help is try to weld to the other welds after they have been cleaned of the slag to fill in the holes as the weld should be thicker than the rusty panels. Weld in short strings of horizontal welds rather than trying to go up or downhill. 6013 rods are flat position only and will trap slag otherwise causing the holes within your welds.

Steve is right about you trying to weld car body panels with the worst possible combination of equipment that I can think of. The fact that you are getting anything welded together with the equiptment you are using is amazing to me. Most of us can only imagine working a month for $200 and not being able to buy something even if we have the money to do so.

We have a saying in the US, "If there's a will, there's a way". Keep trying and good luck.

Len
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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby qwerty12 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:52 am

Big thanks to all.
Well i might find a piece of copper and try with it. Holding it with small clamps will be fine.

Welding on old weld is always a nice thing. Weld material tends to bi thicker and does not burntrought as it seams to be also stronger than a sheet metal. Only one thing there is not nice :lol: Must do kit if chuoing grinding and then welding and then again chiping and grinding. Buth what else man can do than a be patient one in those burning situations 8-)

For the 6013 rods...well you got me there. I thout that all 6011 and 6013 rods are ALL welding position, buth it seams that I was wrong.

Buth eather they are or not all position rods...must weld with them vertical horizontal and overhead. Its much easyer to fight with slag then to turn a car on its roof. Must then weld wrecked roof afther that :lol:
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Re: Beginner welding problems

Postby Otto Nobedder » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:57 pm

I've welded all positions with 6013, and from what I've read, it's common in Australia in particular to weld pipe roots with 6013, where 6010 and 6011 are hard to find.

I don't LIKE to weld overhead with 6013, because of the spatter and slag dripping on me... :shock:

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