sedanman
- sedanman
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Ace
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Posts:
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Joined:Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:54 pm
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Location:Beacon and Pawling, New York
Strictly from a voltage standpoint , 240 volts is two hots, 120 volts is one hot and the neutral. Both 240 and 120 add a ground to help prevent electrocution. There is to my knowledge no combination that is two hots and a neutral. What happens most times is someone uses wire that is not properly color coded, hence the confusion.
As far as I can tell, that's not true. I've installed 3 and 4 prong dryer plugs and the 3 prong ones don't have a ground. In fact, it says neutral on the cord and the wiring diagram. The 3 prong dryer plug I installed on the welder also says neutral on the center wire. It's the same plug that my dryer and stove take too. I assume that the neutral also serves as a ground but, idk if it's compatible with my welder that doesn't use a neutral.
I'm an electrician so maybe I can help you out. I will probably give you more information than you need but just follow it through.
In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.
Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)
This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.
stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.
I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.
hope this helps,
Ed
In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.
Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)
This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.
stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.
I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.
hope this helps,
Ed
I'm an electrician so maybe I can help you out. I will probably give you more information than you need but just follow it through.
In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.
Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)
This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.
stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.
I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.
hope this helps,
Ed
In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.
Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)
This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.
stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.
I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.
hope this helps,
Ed
johnnynightstick
- johnnynightstick
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New Member
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Posts:
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Joined:Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:30 am
Just run NEMA 14-50 four wire plugs with welder adapter dogbones or just lop off the welder plug and install a 14-50 plug.Eddie702 wrote:I'm an electrician so maybe I can help you out. I will probably give you more information than you need but just follow it through.
In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.
Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)
This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.
stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.
I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.
hope this helps,
Ed
Easy for the luddites and it meets code.
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