[outsider347]

Hello All

Just about have enough cash to purchase a new Lincoln SW 200 tig welder
Been watching the forums over the past year & most reports look favorable
I am a hobby shop user. Mostly auto restoration & some fab
Couple questions
1. Those that own the 200, still happy?
2. any downside to the 200?
3. Should I take a look at something else, in the same operational parameter?
4. SEMA. anyone attend SEMA? See anything new in the SW200 range

Thanks for your comments

[clavius]

I bought one a short while ago. With the caveat that I am probably one of the least qualified around here to give an authoritative opinion, I would say so far, so good. The machine seems to work fine, and is still way more capable that I am. I think the compromises that Lincoln made to hit the price point for this machine are pretty well documented here and in various other places on line. It is not as full featured as either much more expensive units, nor some of the lower cost machines from China.

It is clearly not aimed at the professional welder/welding shop market, more the home shop types and maybe shops that do welding as an occasional or support activity. I believe its appeal is that it offers "most" of the features that "most" (who or whatever "most" is) of the profile users would like with "big company" (presumed) quality and support.

I have had a couple of friends try it out who TIG weld finicky stuff for a living and they both deemed it "pretty nice."

[outsider347]

Tks clavius.

Wondering if you were tempted to buy china con?

[clavius]

I did look at some of them pretty closely and did some reading, but in the end decided that the big name and local support on the lincoln were a worthwhile trade-off of somewhat higher price and somewhat fewer features for me. I figured it will be a long time (if ever) before I find myself longing for the extra functions that machines like the Everlasts offer. If my budget were just a bit tighter I'd not hesitate to go with one of the Chinese units, but would just have to go in assuming that it was not repairable or easy to have serviced under warranty if I had problems with it down the road.

It does seem that those who have the Chinese machines are quite happy with them, outside of the service and warranty issues, which to be fair seem to be fairly uncommon. I just did not care to deal with that should it arise and was lucky enough to have a few extra bucks to put into it at this point so I went with the SW200.

[outsider347]

Thanks for responding clavious.

Any other SW users out there?

[Dcstang67]

I am very happy with mine. The only thing i dont like about it is how much gas it wastes on the postflow with no ability to adjust.

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[Oscar]

I am very happy with mine. The only thing i dont like about it is how much gas it wastes on the postflow with no ability to adjust.

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That would be a deal-breaker for me. It's something like 10 or 15 seconds, right? Downright disgusting, lol.

[outsider347]

I am very happy with mine. The only thing i dont like about it is how much gas it wastes on the postflow with no ability to adjust.

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I have read that at several forums.
Seems like a pretty easy firmware update that I'd hoped to see from Lincoln

[clavius]

The post flow does seem to be a major gripe with this machine. It is interesting to note that pretty much the same post flow arrangement is used in the Miller Diversion series: "Postflow is preset for one second for every ten amps of output, with a minimum of eight seconds for DC or AC." so would be 18 seconds at the 180A max for that machine.

In any event, this is the way I looked at it. Your mileage may vary:

If we compare a 5 second post to a 15 second one and assume a 20cfh flow to make the math simple:

(20 cf/hr)/60 min = 0.333 cf/min

(0.333 cf/min)/60sec = 0.00556 cf/sec

So a 5 second post flow costs you 0.0277 cubic feet of gas. A 15 second post flow is 3X that, so 0.083 cf. So if I do 100 welds, the 5 sec PF uses 2.77 cf and the 15 sec PF uses 8.3 cf. Not utterly insignificant, but not to me a big deal in the scope of things.

I swapped my smallish 60cf tank out a little while back, and I don't recall the exact cost, but am guessing it was around $30 or so for the refill. Using that as a round number, it costs me 50 cents for a cubic foot of Ar. So that 100 welds costs me $4.15 with my 15 second PF versus $1.38 for 5 seconds, a difference of $2.77 or 2.77 cents per weld.

Given that I would have had to spend many hundreds of dollars more to get a more featured Miller or Lincoln to add in an adjustable post flow, this was an acceptable trade off to me. I can buy a lot of gas for a thousand bucks. If I ran a factory or a fab shop and welded all day, the equation would be very different. In my case, the cost of the welder of the sort I wanted and a few additional doo-dads was about the limit of my budget, so it's what I went with.

I agree that this is a software thing that maybe could have been easily added, but that was not the decision they made I guess. I presume there was some logic to it (cooling the tungsten, etc.) and it is not fixed at 15, it goes up and down depending on the current setting.

If it starts to bug me I plan to just add a small external solenoid valve in line with the gas inlet. I can trigger it to open with the pedal switch and give it its own adjustable delay-on-break timer that is shorter than the pre-programmed post flow. Pretty straightforward, will not require altering the machine guts, and I'm pretty sure I have the stuff around here already.

Just what I was looking for. Another project....

[Dcstang67]

The post flow does seem to be a major gripe with this machine. It is interesting to note that pretty much the same post flow arrangement is used in the Miller Diversion series: "Postflow is preset for one second for every ten amps of output, with a minimum of eight seconds for DC or AC." so would be 18 seconds at the 180A max for that machine.

In any event, this is the way I looked at it. Your mileage may vary:

If we compare a 5 second post to a 15 second one and assume a 20cfh flow to make the math simple:

(20 cf/hr)/60 min = 0.333 cf/min

(0.333 cf/min)/60sec = 0.00556 cf/sec

So a 5 second post flow costs you 0.0277 cubic feet of gas. A 15 second post flow is 3X that, so 0.083 cf. So if I do 100 welds, the 5 sec PF uses 2.77 cf and the 15 sec PF uses 8.3 cf. Not utterly insignificant, but not to me a big deal in the scope of things.

I swapped my smallish 60cf tank out a little while back, and I don't recall the exact cost, but am guessing it was around $30 or so for the refill. Using that as a round number, it costs me 50 cents for a cubic foot of Ar. So that 100 welds costs me $4.15 with my 15 second PF versus $1.38 for 5 seconds, a difference of $2.77 or 2.77 cents per weld.

Given that I would have had to spend many hundreds of dollars more to get a more featured Miller or Lincoln to add in an adjustable post flow, this was an acceptable trade off to me. I can buy a lot of gas for a thousand bucks. If I ran a factory or a fab shop and welded all day, the equation would be very different. In my case, the cost of the welder of the sort I wanted and a few additional doo-dads was about the limit of my budget, so it's what I went with.

I agree that this is a software thing that maybe could have been easily added, but that was not the decision they made I guess. I presume there was some logic to it (cooling the tungsten, etc.) and it is not fixed at 15, it goes up and down depending on the current setting.

If it starts to bug me I plan to just add a small external solenoid valve in line with the gas inlet. I can trigger it to open with the pedal switch and give it its own adjustable delay-on-break timer that is shorter than the pre-programmed post flow. Pretty straightforward, will not require altering the machine guts, and I'm pretty sure I have the stuff around here already.

Just what I was looking for. Another project....

Interested in this also. If you do it please make a how to post.

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[outsider347]

clavius.
Thanks for your detailed post regarding "real time gas costs" Makes sense to me as a hobby welder.

The gas valve with adjustable time delay is a great idea/project. Thats exactaly what I built for my compressor tank water drain. Used a 24v valve, 24 door bell transformer, and a 24v adjustable time delay relay that I had. Tank drains every cycle

Oscar.
Do you have machine that you would suggest?
tks
ed

[John Chamorro]

I've had mine for 6-8 months. No complaints and no issues. A couple other welder friends have also bought them and all come back with the same favorable results. The post flow gas issue , at least for me is outweighed heavily by the great performance of the machine.

[clavius]

So I guess this sort of leads to the question of what actually IS a reasonable post flow time? I'm not a pro at this stuff by any stretch.

Any thoughts?

This seems to be cited as a major drawback for this machine in many people's eyes. Is this actually that big a deal?


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[GreinTime]

I use 9 as a default when I'm welding aluminum at 300 or up to cool an 1/8" tungsten more so than cover the weld. 10-15 if I'm using a FUPA or TiCup with stickout longer than 1/2" If I'm just doing normal, everyday welds at <=150a on DC, typically 6 seconds.

I normally go 1 second longer than it takes to either cool the tungsten, or that the puddle doesn't instantly explode with color as soon as postflow stops. We do a lot of stainless fusion welds on 20ga and thinner, and they want as little discoloration around the weld as possible. They're paying for gas, and for the finishers to touch up any burn marks after we're done. I might as well try and make their lives easier.

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[John Chamorro]

So I guess this sort of leads to the question of what actually IS a reasonable post flow time? I'm not a pro at this stuff by any stretch.

Any thoughts?

This seems to be cited as a major drawback for this machine in many people's eyes. Is this actually that big a deal?


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This machine is not designed for the production shop although it is capable in a limited sense. My opinion is that with the target market the machine is designed for, that a few seconds of wasted gas is minor. As was stated above, you can buy a lot of gas for a thousand bucks.

[cj737]

Just some friendly input about pre-set PostFlow. Even if you installed an inline solenoid, the gas is already released from the tank into the line. So, whether you use a solenoid or a manual gas valve torch, the moment you open the valve, the accumulated gas will flow out. You can consider it a pre-flow purge I guess, but the solenoid will not reduce the consumption.

Its probably better in the long run to have a post flow value higher than many run in terms of tungsten cooling, collet cooling, and of course weld protection. I started with a MultiMatic that had a preset of 1 second/10 Amps. Now I have a Dynasty, but I still crank it up to 8+ and notice an improvement in my welds and tungsten color. Gas is a consumable and I think you're right about factoring the consumption versus the machine expense to control it.

I almost bought a SW200 until I located a very good deal on a used Dynasty 200. I do like the greater adjustability of frequency on the Dynasty, but for $4,000 versus $1,400, I wouldn't have spent the money (non-pro welder).

I bet you'll be very happy with the SW200.

[clavius]

I would put the valve before the one in the machine (between the outlet or the regulator and the inlet on the machine), so it would in essence, cut off the gas while the internal one is still open. But there would be no gas flowing from the tank at that point. So no accumulated gas. I agree with what you describe if it is downstream or a manual value on the torch. But as I said, for me it seems not too big a deal.

Thanks for the info on the times that you use. Very helpful.

I looked around for quite a while for deals on good used machines but just never found the right one. In my case the small size of the newer inverters was a big advantage to me. I'm not earning a living with this so A $4K machine made no sense for me.

Thanks again!



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[rick9345]

Gas is a consumable,just as gloves,tungsten. etc.
A good weld will include an adequate Pre and Post Flow.(when in doubt,add more pre/post)
Clean(new) gloves ,clean filler rod.
The list goes on and on for the NOOb. Then there are those that weld with a candle and coat hanger.
"Opinions are everywhere"

[outsider347]

Thanks to all for taking the time to respond.
Like clavius, I'm checking the used market for a deal...doesn't often happen around here though.
I will probably buy the SW 200 new. Best $$ I found 1399.00 all over the inter web. My LMS is the same 1399.00 not inc. tx. I usually buy there, I think it's worth it.

I can hold the purchase till the first of the year in hope of a reduced $$ from Lincolon....Any thoughts /suggestion from you Gents?
ed

[outsider347]

Anyone know of any Black Friday sales that happen this time of year?

[Poland308]

I watch IOC online store. They run good end of the year deals. Sometimes they end up throwing in extra stuff like a spool gun or other upgraded things.

[outsider347]

Up date:

Well, I called all of the on line weld retailers, and the response was same......"no sale prices on the SW 200"
So I called Lincoln direct,and their response was basically " The SW 200 has been the best selling machine all of 2016, probably not see a sale price on this machine anytime soon"

So I went over to my LWS and as expected the price is still 1399.00. with the hitch being the sales tax, compared to a on line purchase. I,of course need consumables & a bottle.
Bottom line, LWS can't do anything with the purchase price or sales tx, but has some space to work with me on the rest.

Big thing for me,I like to buy local...I think it's worth it.

ed

[soutthpaw]

You missed out on the 2 for one ½ deal on that and the 210mp Lincoln was doing. The SW 200 has a high starting amperage I think around 30 amps. This is because it does not have points, it's totally solid state HF. This can.be an.issue for really thin metal.

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