No, I didn't ask. I stay away from that cancer causing stuff..... Like thorium is my biggest concern in welding
Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!
[quote="Olivero"][quote="dirtmidget33"]Did they give you any info on advantages of the 4% thoriated over 2%.
No, I didn't ask. I stay away from that cancer causing stuff..... Like thorium is my biggest concern in welding
Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!
No, I didn't ask. I stay away from that cancer causing stuff..... Like thorium is my biggest concern in welding
Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!
Everlast 250EX
Miller 250 syncrowave
Sharp LMV Vertical Mill
Takisawa TSL-800-D Lathe
Coupla Bandsaws,Grinders,surface grinder,tool/cutter grinder
and more stuff than I deserve(Thanks Significant Other)
Miller 250 syncrowave
Sharp LMV Vertical Mill
Takisawa TSL-800-D Lathe
Coupla Bandsaws,Grinders,surface grinder,tool/cutter grinder
and more stuff than I deserve(Thanks Significant Other)
dirtmidget33
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I'm not concerned with all the scares I use 2% thoriated on steel. I like the way it performs and will continue to use it. I use 2% lanthanated on aluminium holds a taper better. However I'm curious as to what advantages the 4% has, might be useful. Ever used a piece of tungsten and after awile you notice that it just doesn't seem to put out same amperage and you have to push further on pedal or starts seem to not be as crisp even though tungsten looks pretty good and hasn't been dipped. As you weld with it the tungsten changes. My limited understanding of it is that the grain structure changes and the stuff added to it gets vaporized so that the chemical make up starts to change. I notice it more on smaller tungstens that's why of wonder if the 4% holds up better. Curious as to what advantages and disadvantages it has over the 2%. Take the lanthanated tungsten as an example. I like the way it holds up under an AC arc using the 2%. However I find the 1% and 1.5% total garbage which is what the local places carry.rick9345 wrote:
Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!
why use standard nozzles after gas lens where invented. Kinda of like starting fires by rubbing sticks together.
kiwi2wheels
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Thanks for bringing that up. It explains a lot. Diamond Ground Products confirm your thoughts.dirtmidget33 wrote:
I'm not concerned with all the scares I use 2% thoriated on steel. I like the way it performs and will continue to use it. I use 2% lanthanated on aluminium holds a taper better. However I'm curious as to what advantages the 4% has, might be useful. Ever used a piece of tungsten and after awile you notice that it just doesn't seem to put out same amperage and you have to push further on pedal or starts seem to not be as crisp even though tungsten looks pretty good and hasn't been dipped. As you weld with it the tungsten changes. My limited understanding of it is that the grain structure changes and the stuff added to it gets vaporized so that the chemical make up starts to change. I notice it more on smaller tungstens that's why of wonder if the 4% holds up better. Curious as to what advantages and disadvantages it has over the 2%. Take the lanthanated tungsten as an example. I like the way it holds up under an AC arc using the 2%. However I find the 1% and 1.5% total garbage which is what the local places carry.
" Migration and Evaporation Rates: The migration rate, or diffusion rate as it is often
called, is the rate at which each of the different oxides naturally travels from inside the
tungsten to the heat at the tip of the electrode. The evaporation rate is the rate at which
the oxides separate from their metal component and are emitted at the tip of the
electrode. The optimum-performing electrode is one that has a balance of good
migration and evaporation rates. If the migration rate is slower than the evaporation
rate, then there will be an inadequate amount of oxides arriving at the tip to maintain a
consistent arc and the tungsten may be reduced to the performance level of pure
tungsten. If the evaporation rate is slower than the migration rate, the oxides will be
crowded at the point. If both of the rates are very high, welding properties at the
beginning of welding will be great, but all of the oxides may be used up quickly. "
http://www.diamondground.co.uk/welding- ... e-wt40.php
http://www.diamondground.co.uk/Guidebook0105.pdf
dirtmidget33
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kiwi2wheels, yep that's what I was talking about. Their description is a lot better than mine on what's going on. Explains the crappy performance from cheap import tungstens that are prolly caused by poor quality control of the mixture and maybe even the purity of their base components.
why use standard nozzles after gas lens where invented. Kinda of like starting fires by rubbing sticks together.
dirtmidget33
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Another good description from link provided by Kiwi2wheels. Copied from the pdf
Manufacturing Variables
Grain Size and Structure- The picture below shows the molecular structure of the inside of a point of tungsten and how it is
divided into smaller groups called grains. These are very important because it is primarily along the boundaries, or borders, of
these grains that the oxides migrate to the tip. It is much easier for the oxides to
migrate from inside the tungsten to the tip on the grain boundaries than
it is for them to migrate within the crystallized grains. In manufacturing
the tungsten, the smaller the size of the grains, the better the oxides will
migrate to the tip because this produces more paths for oxides to use.
Therefore, the smaller the grains, the better the migration of the oxides
to the tip. It is a very difficult process in manufacturing to minimize the
size of the grains while maximizing the consistency of the oxide
distribution and maintaining the proper quantity of oxides. This is one of
the reasons why there are differences in the performance of tungsten
produced by different manufacturers.
During the extreme temperatures of welding, the grains have a tendency to combine with larger neighboring grains to form one
large grain. This is called grain growth. If a continuous flow of oxides at the grain boundaries is maintained, this serves to
surround the grains and pin down the size of the grains and keep them from combining. Thus, oxides are grain growth inhibitors
(they also promote electron emission, which will be discussed later in the section on work functions). When tungsten runs out of
oxides in any area, the grains combine readily and the tungsten is reduced to poor performance because of the lack of avenues
for oxides to move to the surface. In the example in the picture above, notice how this 2% Lanthanated electrode still has a very
small grain structure even after one hour of welding time at 180 amps on a 1/16” electrode. As will be explained in this guidebook,
this is due to quality manufacturing by this tungsten manufacturer and the oxide properties of
2% Lanthanated tungsten.
Oxide Distribution and Size – Perhaps one of the most important variables in the performance of the tungsten is the oxide
distribution. This is also the most obvious factor in determining whether or not a tungsten manufacturer is a high quality producer.
It is extremely important for the oxides to be dispersed within the tungsten in a homogeneous manner. As discussed above, if
there are any areas with little or no oxides, the grains will easily combine under heat and restrict the flow of oxides to the point.
Even though there may be plenty of oxides within the tungsten, if they cannot travel to the point and emit the oxide, the
performance of the tungsten will be restricted. On the other hand, if too many are clumped together in one area, bottlenecks will
occur to prevent the oxides from getting to the point. Finally, the selection of the raw material oxides to use in manufacturing is
also important. Higher quality oxides are smaller in size, which allows them to migrate to the tip easier.
Manufacturing Variables
Grain Size and Structure- The picture below shows the molecular structure of the inside of a point of tungsten and how it is
divided into smaller groups called grains. These are very important because it is primarily along the boundaries, or borders, of
these grains that the oxides migrate to the tip. It is much easier for the oxides to
migrate from inside the tungsten to the tip on the grain boundaries than
it is for them to migrate within the crystallized grains. In manufacturing
the tungsten, the smaller the size of the grains, the better the oxides will
migrate to the tip because this produces more paths for oxides to use.
Therefore, the smaller the grains, the better the migration of the oxides
to the tip. It is a very difficult process in manufacturing to minimize the
size of the grains while maximizing the consistency of the oxide
distribution and maintaining the proper quantity of oxides. This is one of
the reasons why there are differences in the performance of tungsten
produced by different manufacturers.
During the extreme temperatures of welding, the grains have a tendency to combine with larger neighboring grains to form one
large grain. This is called grain growth. If a continuous flow of oxides at the grain boundaries is maintained, this serves to
surround the grains and pin down the size of the grains and keep them from combining. Thus, oxides are grain growth inhibitors
(they also promote electron emission, which will be discussed later in the section on work functions). When tungsten runs out of
oxides in any area, the grains combine readily and the tungsten is reduced to poor performance because of the lack of avenues
for oxides to move to the surface. In the example in the picture above, notice how this 2% Lanthanated electrode still has a very
small grain structure even after one hour of welding time at 180 amps on a 1/16” electrode. As will be explained in this guidebook,
this is due to quality manufacturing by this tungsten manufacturer and the oxide properties of
2% Lanthanated tungsten.
Oxide Distribution and Size – Perhaps one of the most important variables in the performance of the tungsten is the oxide
distribution. This is also the most obvious factor in determining whether or not a tungsten manufacturer is a high quality producer.
It is extremely important for the oxides to be dispersed within the tungsten in a homogeneous manner. As discussed above, if
there are any areas with little or no oxides, the grains will easily combine under heat and restrict the flow of oxides to the point.
Even though there may be plenty of oxides within the tungsten, if they cannot travel to the point and emit the oxide, the
performance of the tungsten will be restricted. On the other hand, if too many are clumped together in one area, bottlenecks will
occur to prevent the oxides from getting to the point. Finally, the selection of the raw material oxides to use in manufacturing is
also important. Higher quality oxides are smaller in size, which allows them to migrate to the tip easier.
why use standard nozzles after gas lens where invented. Kinda of like starting fires by rubbing sticks together.
I have read up on Thorium, it starts radiating its radioactive stuff when its being grinded or hot. At least thats what I remember.rick9345 wrote:Olivero wrote:dirtmidget33 wrote:Did they give you any info on advantages of the 4% thoriated over 2%.
No, I didn't ask. I stay away from that cancer causing stuff..... Like thorium is my biggest concern in welding
Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!
if there's a welder, there's a way
exnailpounder
- exnailpounder
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You probably get way more radiation from welding than you ever would from thorium. Newsflash...lot's of things about welding and metal craft is bad for you. I use thorium dust to flavor my margaritas. 
Ifyoucantellmewhatthissaysiwillbuyyouabeer.
Farmwelding
- Farmwelding
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I can think of anything that could cause other health problems breather than that radiation...exnailpounder wrote:You probably get way more radiation from welding than you ever would from thorium. Newsflash...lot's of things about welding and metal craft is bad for you. I use thorium dust to flavor my margaritas.
Oh wait-welding galvanized, welding stainless, eye problems, aluminum dust and oxides, breathing any fumes (especially flux core and stick in a closed space), in sure acetylene let go before you light has its problems and I'm sure the exhaust isn't good for you, and then all the burns aren't good for your skin and could cause infections. Not to sway people off, there is protection against almost all of these. Just take them.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
exnailpounder
- exnailpounder
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One of my best friends is 91 years old...worked for my dad doing asbestos in the 70's, poked a hole in his dust mask so he could smoke his stogie while he worked, still smokes cigarettes and cigars and drinks a 12 pack every night and just retired 9 months ago..Thorium is a health threat? Really? I think the actual participants in life live longer than the spectators. I'm a participant and have the scars to prove it.Farmwelding wrote:I can think of anything that could cause other health problems breather than that radiation...exnailpounder wrote:You probably get way more radiation from welding than you ever would from thorium. Newsflash...lot's of things about welding and metal craft is bad for you. I use thorium dust to flavor my margaritas.
Oh wait-welding galvanized, welding stainless, eye problems, aluminum dust and oxides, breathing any fumes (especially flux core and stick in a closed space), in sure acetylene let go before you light has its problems and I'm sure the exhaust isn't good for you, and then all the burns aren't good for your skin and could cause infections. Not to sway people off, there is protection against almost all of these. Just take them.
Ifyoucantellmewhatthissaysiwillbuyyouabeer.
exnailpounder
- exnailpounder
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[quote="Poland308"]You get more radiation from getting 1 X-ray at the dentist than you will from tungsten. Unless you start snorting the dust under the grinder.[/quote
Can you get buzzed off it? I use it in my secret rib rub...never thought about snorting it. If anyone is afraid of radiation...you're living on the wrong planet.
Can you get buzzed off it? I use it in my secret rib rub...never thought about snorting it.
If anyone is afraid of radiation...you're living on the wrong planet.Ifyoucantellmewhatthissaysiwillbuyyouabeer.
Farmwelding
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Especially if you are in California.exnailpounder wrote:Poland308 wrote:You get more radiation from getting 1 X-ray at the dentist than you will from tungsten. Unless you start snorting the dust under the grinder.[/quote
Can you get buzzed off it? I use it in my secret rib rub...never thought about snorting it.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
I am starting to get the idea someone didn't catch my sarcasm. But let me hammer the nail to the point here.
There are so many warnings about all and every thing that will kill you, everything is dangerous and that's how it is. I am not worried about Thorium's slight alpha radiation or whatever its called nor so much from the fumes of welding.
I wear a mask and protect myself as much as I can stand cause when its hot outside, I will gladly carry a burn on my arm than having to sweat my way through a job, Florida summer is like a 24/7 sauna, it's so wet outside its retarded.
There are so many warnings about all and every thing that will kill you, everything is dangerous and that's how it is. I am not worried about Thorium's slight alpha radiation or whatever its called nor so much from the fumes of welding.
I wear a mask and protect myself as much as I can stand cause when its hot outside, I will gladly carry a burn on my arm than having to sweat my way through a job, Florida summer is like a 24/7 sauna, it's so wet outside its retarded.
if there's a welder, there's a way
Spent the last few days, on my spare time, reading about thorium.
Apperantly Thorium is naturaly occuring and everyone on the planet is injesting it. The percentages are small, or should I say microscopic, or even smaller then that. It usually passes through the body. Yes the worst way for it to enter into your body is though and into your lungs.
That being said, I wonder how much asbestos I have breathed in in my life as a Plumber. Pipe coverd with it, Vermiculite in ayyics as insulation. Floor tiles with asbestose in them, Bricks with asbestos in them. The list goes on. Apperantly my risk of a heart attack are greater. Thats because Ive had one.
All good now.But thats getting of topic.
Wear a mask while grinding ANYTHING. just common sence.
If you dont like thoriated tungsten thats fine by me dont use it.
Now getting back to what tungstens are good, I have had the chance to try Ceriated tungsten Not sure what percentage.
Ive tried it on Stainless with a DC tig or GTAW, If you prefure, and it worked perfectly. best tight arch ive seen so far.
So I am from now on using ceriated tungsten for stainless.
I will how ever, as money permits, keep trying other tungstens as well.
Apperantly Thorium is naturaly occuring and everyone on the planet is injesting it. The percentages are small, or should I say microscopic, or even smaller then that. It usually passes through the body. Yes the worst way for it to enter into your body is though and into your lungs.
That being said, I wonder how much asbestos I have breathed in in my life as a Plumber. Pipe coverd with it, Vermiculite in ayyics as insulation. Floor tiles with asbestose in them, Bricks with asbestos in them. The list goes on. Apperantly my risk of a heart attack are greater. Thats because Ive had one.
All good now.But thats getting of topic.Wear a mask while grinding ANYTHING. just common sence.
If you dont like thoriated tungsten thats fine by me dont use it.
Now getting back to what tungstens are good, I have had the chance to try Ceriated tungsten Not sure what percentage.
Ive tried it on Stainless with a DC tig or GTAW, If you prefure, and it worked perfectly. best tight arch ive seen so far.
So I am from now on using ceriated tungsten for stainless.
I will how ever, as money permits, keep trying other tungstens as well.
Farmwelding
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Ceriated is okay-in fact it is all I use because that is all my teacher has at school. 3/32" on everything from35-180 amps. No problems from me. Keeps it shape pretty well to at higher amperages and even keeps its point on AC. As for zirconiated-don't do it especially on AC. That will get destroyed after a little AC is run through it. Good arc start on the first bead after sharpening and then after that it walks enough you may as will give it your dog to take for a walk
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
kiwi2wheels
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Farmwelding wrote:Ceriated is okay-in fact it is all I use because that is all my teacher has at school. 3/32" on everything from35-180 amps. No problems from me. Keeps it shape pretty well to at higher amperages and even keeps its point on AC. As for zirconiated-don't do it especially on AC. That will get destroyed after a little AC is run through it. Good arc start on the first bead after sharpening and then after that it walks enough you may as will give it your dog to take for a walk
That's a crap quality zirconium you have then . That mix was developed for AC welding where tungsten inclusions picked up during radiographic testing would fail the weld.
Before all the other " stuff " came on the market, it was the electrode of choice for high current AC work.
Farmwelding
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Well... that might explain why we have about 10 packages we got for free from some store... Well I guess tat is probably whykiwi2wheels wrote:Farmwelding wrote:Ceriated is okay-in fact it is all I use because that is all my teacher has at school. 3/32" on everything from35-180 amps. No problems from me. Keeps it shape pretty well to at higher amperages and even keeps its point on AC. As for zirconiated-don't do it especially on AC. That will get destroyed after a little AC is run through it. Good arc start on the first bead after sharpening and then after that it walks enough you may as will give it your dog to take for a walk
That's a crap quality zirconium you have then . That mix was developed for AC welding where tungsten inclusions picked up during radiographic testing would fail the weld.
Before all the other " stuff " came on the market, it was the electrode of choice for high current AC work.
A student now but really want to weld everyday. Want to learn everything about everything. Want to become a knower of all and master of none.
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
Instagram: @farmwelding
Nick
kiwi2wheels
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Try and get your teacher to buy this handbook ; https://www.amazon.com/Gas-Tungsten-Arc ... 1605257931Farmwelding wrote:Well... that might explain why we have about 10 packages we got for free from some store... Well I guess tat is probably whykiwi2wheels wrote:Farmwelding wrote:Ceriated is okay-in fact it is all I use because that is all my teacher has at school. 3/32" on everything from35-180 amps. No problems from me. Keeps it shape pretty well to at higher amperages and even keeps its point on AC. As for zirconiated-don't do it especially on AC. That will get destroyed after a little AC is run through it. Good arc start on the first bead after sharpening and then after that it walks enough you may as will give it your dog to take for a walk
That's a crap quality zirconium you have then . That mix was developed for AC welding where tungsten inclusions picked up during radiographic testing would fail the weld.
Before all the other " stuff " came on the market, it was the electrode of choice for high current AC work.
Even better, if you can, buy your own.
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Agreed, it was developed during the ice, err, I mean transformer era.kiwi2wheels wrote: That's a crap quality zirconium you have then . That mix was developed for AC welding where tungsten inclusions picked up during radiographic testing would fail the weld.
Before all the other " stuff " came on the market, it was the electrode of choice for high current AC work.
@Farmwelding... you're not supposed to sharpen it to a point for AC welding, I always switched to EP and using very low amps would ball the tungsten after cleaning on a bench grinder
Richard
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