[Danylo66]

Otto Nobedder, my chart shows Grey listed for several Allowing elements, Ceriated,Lanthenated Yttrium and others. Zirconated asBrown or Wite. That's as much as I know anyway. Still learning.

[RamboBaby]

Once you try the 2% lanthanated you'll forget all about the thoriated. 2% Lanthanated is the diggity dank schiznit, yo! This electrode in 3/32" holds up to 225 amps ac with 30% cleaning action just fine in a #20 water cooled torch. In fact it held up much better in my inverter machine than 1/8" thoriated did at 200 amps because the thoriated tungsten split down the middle. I think that the thoriated just didn't like the arc produced by the inverter because I never saw thoriated split in the old boss's lincoln square wave machine. I first bought the lanthanated based on Jody's recommendation when I got my welder. The old boss tried it out side by side with his thoriated and was thoroughly impressed with how much better it could handle the heat. I had very little experience at the time and asked him how he could tell. He had me strap on a hood and showed me the liquified tungsten rolling around on the end of his thoriated and then showed me how that wasn't the case with my lanthanated. Then his girlfriend started screaming and cussed us both for spending that much money on the lanthanated. We had just returned from the LWS and she was pissed when she saw the bill.

[Artie F. Emm]

girlfriend started screaming and cussed us both for spending that much money on the lanthanated. We had just returned from the LWS and she was pissed when she saw the bill.

Doesn't have to be expensive. I found good prices for 2% lanth at WeldingCity.com.

[GreinTime]

Grein Time
Which Ceriated the Orange lable or Grey?

I have CK Grey band Ceriated, but the new Dynasty 350s we got at work have Orange Ceriated included. I don't think there is a difference.

Steve,

Zirconiated is typically Brown from what I've seen, although as Dany points out, Grey can be anything the manufacturer decides, as long as it's not pure or thoriated. It's kind of a catch all.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Gavin Melville]

I thought the E3 electrodes were good until I got 2% lanthanated. I still use thoriated for DC though. https://youtu.be/DzEuV83UGMY

[Otto Nobedder]

Otto Nobedder, my chart shows Grey listed for several Allowing elements, Ceriated,Lanthenated Yttrium and others. Zirconated asBrown or Wite. That's as much as I know anyway. Still learning.

Yeah, I'm so accustomed to using red and green, which are universal across all brands I've used that I forget there's no industry standard for how makers mark their tungsten. I'll see if I can find the chart with grey as zirconiated so I can see who the maker is.

Thanks to all who corrected me. I hate giving out bad information.

Steve S

[Danylo66]

Id like to say thank you to all of you. I did not expect to learn so much. Hopefully everyone gets this message. The chart I used was from weld.com, it does not mention manufacturers.

[rick9345]

E3 BAH!
Diamond Ground Products -Cryo-T Pink
Works AC/DC
ANSI Class EWTh-2
ANSI/AWS A5. 12, JIS
DIN EN 268-48,ISO 6848

(4% Thoriated)( fairly recent addition for DGP)

wrong amperage for the tunsten size being used,affects weld quaility,grinding long and thin is a crutch to get by.
I understand having to use what is available. But choosing the wrong size seems so unprofessional.
opinions will vary

[Danylo66]

E3 BAH!
Diamond Ground Products -Cryo-T Pink
Works AC/DC
ANSI Class EWTh-2
ANSI/AWS A5. 12, JIS
DIN EN 268-48,ISO 6848

(4% Thoriated)( fairly recent addition for DGP)

wrong amperage for the tunsten size being used,affects weld quaility,grinding long and thin is a crutch to get by.
I understand having to use what is available. But choosing the wrong size seems so unprofessional.
opinions will vary

Have not ben on the forum for a while. ive never hears of the pink ones, Ill get some and give them a try. Hey why not. Thanks.

[LtBadd]

Have not ben on the forum for a while. ive never hears of the pink ones, Ill get some and give them a try. Hey why not. Thanks.

I've heard that if you call Diamond Ground Products they'll send a free sample (tungsten)

[Olivero]

Diamond group will send a free sample if you call them.

I felt pretty adventurous one day and asked for the 4% thoriated one.... Still dips in the puddle when my hand moves the wrong way, not good enough then, gotta be puddle dippin' free.

[Olivero]

E3 BAH!
Diamond Ground Products -Cryo-T Pink
Works AC/DC
ANSI Class EWTh-2
ANSI/AWS A5. 12, JIS
DIN EN 268-48,ISO 6848

(4% Thoriated)( fairly recent addition for DGP)

wrong amperage for the tunsten size being used,affects weld quaility,grinding long and thin is a crutch to get by.
I understand having to use what is available. But choosing the wrong size seems so unprofessional.
opinions will vary

I just got off the phone with DGP, Cryo T is meant for steel, not aluminum. They also take into consideration if you have an inverter or transformer type machine.

Apparently the Chinese is the ones making E3 so the QC is probably non existant and is a copy of the Tri Mix.

I keep getting variying results with my E3's sometimes they are great, sometimes not, last night I was trying to weld aluminum outside and they just kept sucking.

Now I am getting a sample of their Tri-Mix since that's what's recommended for my inverter machine when doing aluminum, I guess I can use it for steel and aluminum but I am really wanting a better aluminum electrode.

[Farmwelding]

Diamond group will send a free sample if you call them.

I felt pretty adventurous one day and asked for the 4% thoriated one.... Still dips in the puddle when my hand moves the wrong way, not good enough then, gotta be puddle dippin' free.

Yeah if you could find some tungsten that doesn't dip you make sure we are all the first to know. or maybe some combination of elements that resist certain metals or a magnet for steel that repels the torch if you get too close...

I think Im on to something here

or maybe not...

[Olivero]

Diamond group will send a free sample if you call them.

I felt pretty adventurous one day and asked for the 4% thoriated one.... Still dips in the puddle when my hand moves the wrong way, not good enough then, gotta be puddle dippin' free.

Yeah if you could find some tungsten that doesn't dip you make sure we are all the first to know. or maybe some combination of elements that resist certain metals or a magnet for steel that repels the torch if you get too close...

I think Im on to something here

or maybe not...

That would be awesome. I used to sling the hose up through my drop ceiling in the shop to try and help the dipping phenomena, still dipping it like fries in ketchup.....

[Danylo66]

Diamond group will send a free sample if you call them.

I felt pretty adventurous one day and asked for the 4% thoriated one.... Still dips in the puddle when my hand moves the wrong way, not good enough then, gotta be puddle dippin' free.

Yeah if you could find some tungsten that doesn't dip you make sure we are all the first to know. or maybe some combination of elements that resist certain metals or a magnet for steel that repels the torch if you get too close...

I think Im on to something here

or maybe not...

Nope you are definitely onto something.

[Danylo66]

E3 BAH!
Diamond Ground Products -Cryo-T Pink
Works AC/DC
ANSI Class EWTh-2
ANSI/AWS A5. 12, JIS
DIN EN 268-48,ISO 6848

(4% Thoriated)( fairly recent addition for DGP)

wrong amperage for the tunsten size being used,affects weld quaility,grinding long and thin is a crutch to get by.
I understand having to use what is available. But choosing the wrong size seems so unprofessional.
opinions will vary

I just got off the phone with DGP, Cryo T is meant for steel, not aluminum. They also take into consideration if you have an inverter or transformer type machine.

Apparently the Chinese is the ones making E3 so the QC is probably non existant and is a copy of the Tri Mix.

I keep getting variying results with my E3's sometimes they are great, sometimes not, last night I was trying to weld aluminum outside and they just kept sucking.

Now I am getting a sample of their Tri-Mix since that's what's recommended for my inverter machine when doing aluminum, I guess I can use it for steel and aluminum but I am really wanting a better aluminum electrode.

My machine is only a DC welder so the cryo T would bealright for me to try. thanks for the tip on a free try. Thanks

[LtBadd]

Diamond group will send a free sample if you call them.
I felt pretty adventurous one day and asked for the 4% thoriated one.... Still dips in the puddle when my hand moves the wrong way, not good enough then, gotta be puddle dippin' free.

thanks for the tip on a free try. Thanks

hmmm, cough, cough

[dirtmidget33]

Did they give you any info on advantages of the 4% thoriated over 2%. I wonder does the oxides just deteriorate slower than 2%. Might be useful with the smaller diameter tungstens. Typical dip before I wear it out.

[Olivero]

Diamond group will send a free sample if you call them.
I felt pretty adventurous one day and asked for the 4% thoriated one.... Still dips in the puddle when my hand moves the wrong way, not good enough then, gotta be puddle dippin' free.

thanks for the tip on a free try. Thanks

hmmm, cough, cough

Hey now, we all know you suggested it first.

[Olivero]

Did they give you any info on advantages of the 4% thoriated over 2%. I wonder does the oxides just deteriorate slower than 2%. Might be useful with the smaller diameter tungstens. Typical dip before I wear it out.

No, I didn't ask. I stay away from that cancer causing stuff..... Like thorium is my biggest concern in welding

I got away from these thoriated ones but figured I would give it a shot. You can call them and ask them, they are pretty helpful. I am getting some samples now so I will see

[rick9345]

[quote="Olivero"][quote="dirtmidget33"]Did they give you any info on advantages of the 4% thoriated over 2%.

No, I didn't ask. I stay away from that cancer causing stuff..... Like thorium is my biggest concern in welding

Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!

[dirtmidget33]

Might want to read up on Thorium before you lump it into cancer cause from hearsay info.
Living might also be hazardous to ones health!

I'm not concerned with all the scares I use 2% thoriated on steel. I like the way it performs and will continue to use it. I use 2% lanthanated on aluminium holds a taper better. However I'm curious as to what advantages the 4% has, might be useful. Ever used a piece of tungsten and after awile you notice that it just doesn't seem to put out same amperage and you have to push further on pedal or starts seem to not be as crisp even though tungsten looks pretty good and hasn't been dipped. As you weld with it the tungsten changes. My limited understanding of it is that the grain structure changes and the stuff added to it gets vaporized so that the chemical make up starts to change. I notice it more on smaller tungstens that's why of wonder if the 4% holds up better. Curious as to what advantages and disadvantages it has over the 2%. Take the lanthanated tungsten as an example. I like the way it holds up under an AC arc using the 2%. However I find the 1% and 1.5% total garbage which is what the local places carry.

[kiwi2wheels]

I'm not concerned with all the scares I use 2% thoriated on steel. I like the way it performs and will continue to use it. I use 2% lanthanated on aluminium holds a taper better. However I'm curious as to what advantages the 4% has, might be useful. Ever used a piece of tungsten and after awile you notice that it just doesn't seem to put out same amperage and you have to push further on pedal or starts seem to not be as crisp even though tungsten looks pretty good and hasn't been dipped. As you weld with it the tungsten changes. My limited understanding of it is that the grain structure changes and the stuff added to it gets vaporized so that the chemical make up starts to change. I notice it more on smaller tungstens that's why of wonder if the 4% holds up better. Curious as to what advantages and disadvantages it has over the 2%. Take the lanthanated tungsten as an example. I like the way it holds up under an AC arc using the 2%. However I find the 1% and 1.5% total garbage which is what the local places carry.

Thanks for bringing that up. It explains a lot. Diamond Ground Products confirm your thoughts.

" Migration and Evaporation Rates: The migration rate, or diffusion rate as it is often
called, is the rate at which each of the different oxides naturally travels from inside the
tungsten to the heat at the tip of the electrode. The evaporation rate is the rate at which
the oxides separate from their metal component and are emitted at the tip of the
electrode. The optimum-performing electrode is one that has a balance of good
migration and evaporation rates. If the migration rate is slower than the evaporation
rate, then there will be an inadequate amount of oxides arriving at the tip to maintain a
consistent arc and the tungsten may be reduced to the performance level of pure
tungsten. If the evaporation rate is slower than the migration rate, the oxides will be
crowded at the point. If both of the rates are very high, welding properties at the
beginning of welding will be great, but all of the oxides may be used up quickly. "

http://www.diamondground.co.uk/welding- ... e-wt40.php

http://www.diamondground.co.uk/Guidebook0105.pdf

[dirtmidget33]

kiwi2wheels, yep that's what I was talking about. Their description is a lot better than mine on what's going on. Explains the crappy performance from cheap import tungstens that are prolly caused by poor quality control of the mixture and maybe even the purity of their base components.

[dirtmidget33]

Another good description from link provided by Kiwi2wheels. Copied from the pdf

Manufacturing Variables
Grain Size and Structure- The picture below shows the molecular structure of the inside of a point of tungsten and how it is
divided into smaller groups called grains. These are very important because it is primarily along the boundaries, or borders, of
these grains that the oxides migrate to the tip. It is much easier for the oxides to
migrate from inside the tungsten to the tip on the grain boundaries than
it is for them to migrate within the crystallized grains. In manufacturing
the tungsten, the smaller the size of the grains, the better the oxides will
migrate to the tip because this produces more paths for oxides to use.
Therefore, the smaller the grains, the better the migration of the oxides
to the tip. It is a very difficult process in manufacturing to minimize the
size of the grains while maximizing the consistency of the oxide
distribution and maintaining the proper quantity of oxides. This is one of
the reasons why there are differences in the performance of tungsten
produced by different manufacturers.

During the extreme temperatures of welding, the grains have a tendency to combine with larger neighboring grains to form one
large grain. This is called grain growth. If a continuous flow of oxides at the grain boundaries is maintained, this serves to
surround the grains and pin down the size of the grains and keep them from combining. Thus, oxides are grain growth inhibitors
(they also promote electron emission, which will be discussed later in the section on work functions). When tungsten runs out of
oxides in any area, the grains combine readily and the tungsten is reduced to poor performance because of the lack of avenues
for oxides to move to the surface. In the example in the picture above, notice how this 2% Lanthanated electrode still has a very
small grain structure even after one hour of welding time at 180 amps on a 1/16” electrode. As will be explained in this guidebook,
this is due to quality manufacturing by this tungsten manufacturer and the oxide properties of
2% Lanthanated tungsten.
Oxide Distribution and Size – Perhaps one of the most important variables in the performance of the tungsten is the oxide
distribution. This is also the most obvious factor in determining whether or not a tungsten manufacturer is a high quality producer.
It is extremely important for the oxides to be dispersed within the tungsten in a homogeneous manner. As discussed above, if
there are any areas with little or no oxides, the grains will easily combine under heat and restrict the flow of oxides to the point.
Even though there may be plenty of oxides within the tungsten, if they cannot travel to the point and emit the oxide, the
performance of the tungsten will be restricted. On the other hand, if too many are clumped together in one area, bottlenecks will
occur to prevent the oxides from getting to the point. Finally, the selection of the raw material oxides to use in manufacturing is
also important. Higher quality oxides are smaller in size, which allows them to migrate to the tip easier.