Welding Tips and Tricks

bruce991 wrote:Strange I make all kinds of things from old and new shoes never had any problems. I do use 2% lanthenated tungsten and find them very easy to run a nice bead. Maybe you have a leak on the argon. I do use gas lens #8 on everything. I have welded some right out of box no prep no issues.

My experience as well.

No problems - I speed tack with a quick blast of 200 amps.
Tacking is really nice like that because they don't move around that way like they can with a mig or stick tack.

Then I often tig them really fast with high amps too. 1/16" rod in 70s-2 or 309 stainless.

They are new and I don't clean the mill scale off or wire brush them - all welded from the back.

donzi426 wrote:Tungsten: 1/16" purple rare earth electrodes.... I set amps at 160 and am using a foot-pedal.

Depending on composition and sharpening, 1/16" tungsten is rated for about 70-150 amps, 3/32" 150-250. So I'd say your tungsten is a bit too small for what you're trying to do. Even if a 3/32" works, my experience is it will degrade fairly quick at that current, so you might try a 1/8".

Changed to a #8 gas lens cup and using 3/32 rare earth tungsten. Argon set at 20 cfh. Results are not good. See photos. Also upped the amps to 180. Sorry, can't seem to get more than one photo on a page. Seems like the first side I weld, a puddle starts to flow and I get some beads. The second side gets like garbage.

Changed to a number 8 cup and 3/32 Rare Earth Tungsten. Argon gas set at 20 CFH. Same problem. See photos

See Photo.

See Photo #4. This is a dupe. Disregard.

Another photo. One of the other photos I posted was a dupe. Sorry.

Your second photo looks ok. I would add more filler. The other pics look like your amperage is set too low and your not melting in evenly in the filet. I think your having trouble with the puddle with sooting an porosity because you gas is set TOO high and is swirling around the shoe and drawing in air. Try a smaller cup and/or lower you CFH or put a dam behind where you are trying to weld to trap argon.

Well some look much better than others - not sure why but something is improving - only comment I can make is not a lot of fill material so it looks like your concentrating on getting a fairly large puddle in the base metal first - it is possible the horseshoes are made of very poorly refined steel as a cost saving or alloyed with something to improve wear that boils out as you weld affecting the pool - as this is a low strength application I might try using 309 filler as it ability to bond to mixed alloys & absorb contamination is very good - instead of trying to puddle the base metal & add filler try lighting up on the filler & " wash " it across the joint so it mixes with the base metal before it oxidizes or boils stuff out - probably do several small runs hot & fast rather than camp out & get it all hot the longer you heat the worse it gets - an alternative would be silicon bronze as there is no need to melt the base metal - this is more expensive though & not as strong - there is also a chance torch / rod angle in such small lengths of joint mean your dragging atmosphere in - could be worth setting up something to act as a gas dam around the joint.

Thanks exnailpounder and Noddybrian. I'll try both of your suggestions.

We must have posted almost together with similar thoughts - having looked again I would look at torch angle / gas flow / argon dam first while trying to not overheat of boil a large base metal puddle prior to adding filler - only try the 309 filler after ruling out gas issues as brand new horseshoes should weld with regular cheap ER70 rod - remember with Tig it's only the silicon / deoxidizers in the filler that can clean up impurities otherwise the longer & hotter you heat the base metal the more likely crap will boil out - other than appearance or less post weld clean up really Mig is more often used for this type work & usually welds fine - use nice small diameter wire fairly hot to achieve smooth but not too big welds.

I tried lowering my gas flow to 15 CFH. Also used 308 stainless filler road. Raised the amps to 173. I forgot to make a dam to coral the gas, but I'll try that next time. See Photo.

Here's the opposite side. Second one is still cruddy.

Better but you need to build a dam behind your weld area, I really believe you are drawing in air. Turn your gas down more. I have gone as low as 7 CFH. Too much flow causes a vortex and draws in air around something so small. You also need to pause a second to get a puddle, dip your filler and then repeat. It looks like you're lay wiring which cools off your puddle. Tig welds are flatter than other weld processes and filets can be somewhat concave.

If those were close up pics then those horseshoes look borderline on cast. I'm still thinking metal quality. I've welded on old pipe in buildings that were over 100 years old and you fight the same problems there. Holes sometimes and good welds 1/2 inch later.

Ok. I'll try lowering the gas. I'll also try to reach out to the ebayer I bought them from to see if they are cast or not. Thanks guys. Just remembered. While welding I see sparks flying around the weld. Maybe impurities.

Just contacted ebayer about horseshoes. He said that "they are steel sand blasted. Great for welding, used on horses or other projects. "

donzi426 wrote:Just contacted ebayer about horseshoes. He said that "they are steel sand blasted. Great for welding, used on horses or other projects. "

I suspect a technique issue. It may be as simple as you created mill scale on the backside and when you went to weld it you did not compensate for it. I find more heat faster, and getting some rod in right away for the "cleaning effect" works.

I welded some heavily mill scaled flat stock to solid square stock that didn't have the mill scale removed because it would ruin the "rustic look."

I used 200+ amps and 3/32" rod. I went immediate full pedal to puddle quick and got rod in immediately - it all welded real nice and no grinder marks.

FYI Walmart online sells shoes in bulk

I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

Thanks Dave. I'll try more heat.

Thanks Steve S. I've tried the weld and grind on a couple of the cruddy welds. I only have 308 rods, but I'll order some 309 today.

ER70 S6 is supposed to be good for dirty metal too. I am staying in the gas-issue, laywire cold puddle camp. I have never seen sparks come from anything other than trying to weld over millscale and OP says the shoes are sand blasted. I have had similar issues welding railroad spikes but they are soaked with creosote so trouble is expected but brand new horseshoes? Modern horseshoes would have to be, at least, a half-way decent alloy.

Otto Nobedder wrote:I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

I agree with 309. I've used it on horseshoes too and it welds very nice

I've never had to grind welds on bulk ordered new horseshoes so something other than metal may be wrong?

Or maybe I've just been lucky

MinnesotaDave wrote:

Otto Nobedder wrote:I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

I agree with 309. I've used it on horseshoes too and it welds very nice

I've never had to grind welds on bulk ordered new horseshoes so something other than metal may be wrong?

Or maybe I've just been lucky

That's why I am staying in the camp I am in. Horseshoes can't be brittle so they can't be cast iron but I bet they are forged steel and it should weld just fine. Farriers still have to heat and custom fit pre-made shoes because you can't take your horse to Shoe Carnival and let him try them on so I am betting its a torch nut error.