Welding Tips and Tricks

We must have posted almost together with similar thoughts - having looked again I would look at torch angle / gas flow / argon dam first while trying to not overheat of boil a large base metal puddle prior to adding filler - only try the 309 filler after ruling out gas issues as brand new horseshoes should weld with regular cheap ER70 rod - remember with Tig it's only the silicon / deoxidizers in the filler that can clean up impurities otherwise the longer & hotter you heat the base metal the more likely crap will boil out - other than appearance or less post weld clean up really Mig is more often used for this type work & usually welds fine - use nice small diameter wire fairly hot to achieve smooth but not too big welds.

I tried lowering my gas flow to 15 CFH. Also used 308 stainless filler road. Raised the amps to 173. I forgot to make a dam to coral the gas, but I'll try that next time. See Photo.

Here's the opposite side. Second one is still cruddy.

Better but you need to build a dam behind your weld area, I really believe you are drawing in air. Turn your gas down more. I have gone as low as 7 CFH. Too much flow causes a vortex and draws in air around something so small. You also need to pause a second to get a puddle, dip your filler and then repeat. It looks like you're lay wiring which cools off your puddle. Tig welds are flatter than other weld processes and filets can be somewhat concave.

If those were close up pics then those horseshoes look borderline on cast. I'm still thinking metal quality. I've welded on old pipe in buildings that were over 100 years old and you fight the same problems there. Holes sometimes and good welds 1/2 inch later.

Ok. I'll try lowering the gas. I'll also try to reach out to the ebayer I bought them from to see if they are cast or not. Thanks guys. Just remembered. While welding I see sparks flying around the weld. Maybe impurities.

Just contacted ebayer about horseshoes. He said that "they are steel sand blasted. Great for welding, used on horses or other projects. "

donzi426 wrote:Just contacted ebayer about horseshoes. He said that "they are steel sand blasted. Great for welding, used on horses or other projects. "

I suspect a technique issue. It may be as simple as you created mill scale on the backside and when you went to weld it you did not compensate for it. I find more heat faster, and getting some rod in right away for the "cleaning effect" works.

I welded some heavily mill scaled flat stock to solid square stock that didn't have the mill scale removed because it would ruin the "rustic look."

I used 200+ amps and 3/32" rod. I went immediate full pedal to puddle quick and got rod in immediately - it all welded real nice and no grinder marks.

FYI Walmart online sells shoes in bulk

I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

Thanks Dave. I'll try more heat.

Thanks Steve S. I've tried the weld and grind on a couple of the cruddy welds. I only have 308 rods, but I'll order some 309 today.

ER70 S6 is supposed to be good for dirty metal too. I am staying in the gas-issue, laywire cold puddle camp. I have never seen sparks come from anything other than trying to weld over millscale and OP says the shoes are sand blasted. I have had similar issues welding railroad spikes but they are soaked with creosote so trouble is expected but brand new horseshoes? Modern horseshoes would have to be, at least, a half-way decent alloy.

Otto Nobedder wrote:I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

I agree with 309. I've used it on horseshoes too and it welds very nice

I've never had to grind welds on bulk ordered new horseshoes so something other than metal may be wrong?

Or maybe I've just been lucky

MinnesotaDave wrote:

Otto Nobedder wrote:I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

I agree with 309. I've used it on horseshoes too and it welds very nice

I've never had to grind welds on bulk ordered new horseshoes so something other than metal may be wrong?

Or maybe I've just been lucky

That's why I am staying in the camp I am in. Horseshoes can't be brittle so they can't be cast iron but I bet they are forged steel and it should weld just fine. Farriers still have to heat and custom fit pre-made shoes because you can't take your horse to Shoe Carnival and let him try them on so I am betting its a torch nut error.

They very well could be some kind of cast steel or pig iron. Forged in outer china from old tin army badges and medals. Shipped over in an open wood crate on the deck of a ship. Rusted for months in a ship yard then sand blasted and sold on the cheap. Looking at the closeup pick you can see it has a poor quality to the metal that looks more than surface deep. Perfect for art. But probably looked over or tossed out by the ferrier.

Poland308 wrote:They very well could be some kind of cast steel or pig iron. Forged in outer china from old tin army badges and medals. Shipped over in an open wood crate on the deck of a ship. Rusted for months in a ship yard then sand blasted and sold on the cheap. Looking at the closeup pick you can see it has a poor quality to the metal that looks more than surface deep. Perfect for art. But probably looked over or tossed out by the ferrier.

You're probably right. If it was me...I would just Silbr the things and be done with it. I think the nice gold color would make it look cool. I can't believe we spent 4 pages fighting over horseshoes...oh wait...yes I can

I was starting to consider metal being the problem except for exnailpounder claiming "torch nut error."

Now that's my favorite reason because it makes me laugh and I no longer want to consider metal as the problem.

Today I tried something and I believe it works. Didn't clean or sand the horseshoes. Raised the heat to 180 Amps. Raised the gas flow to 20 CFH (lowering it just caused a mess). Used 70R-6 filler rod. Concentrated on the arc angle and bingo. Pretty nice weld. The second side wasn't as pretty, but I think by doing the first side it must release some of the contaminants in these shoes. See photos. I want to thank everyone who contributed to my post. Those suggestions did help.

That was the second side. This photo is the first side.

donzi426 wrote:Today I tried something and I believe it works. Didn't clean or sand the horseshoes. Raised the heat to 180 Amps. Raised the gas flow to 20 CFH (lowering it just caused a mess). Used 70R-6 filler rod. Concentrated on the arc angle and bingo. Pretty nice weld. The second side wasn't as pretty, but I think by doing the first side it must release some of the contaminants in these shoes. See photos. I want to thank everyone who contributed to my post. Those suggestions did help.

You did not form a proper puddle on both pieces - if you look at the toes of your first pic you can see a distinct lack of fusion.

Maybe you should practice fillets on regular T joints and show them for some tips on tigging them?

You're right Dave. I do need more practice on fillets. Back to the drawing board:-)

[quote="donzi426"]You're right Dave. I do need more practice on fillets. Back to the drawing board:-)[/quote Or use mig. Mig works on anything. Once you paint your project, a couple of iffy welds won't matter to anyone other than another welder looking to start some shit

I love it you can disagree totally about something on one thread and yet pat someone on the back two posts later. Lots of times I will argue a point until I totally understand I'm wrong and then turn 180 deg and run just as hard the other way.

I know I can MIG these shoes, but I'm determined to conquer this project with TIG. Just need to get the right combination. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all your help.

Vinny