[cj737]

There are no screens except for the one in the gas lens itself. and the gas lens is a smaller diameter than the Pyrex cup.

This is correct within certain tolerances. The cup obviously has to be wider to pass over the lens, but the O-ring seals it. Is your cup firmly secured by the included O-ring?

I feel like the problem is either with the gas lens itself or the fact that it ends way before the end of the cup and isnt as big in diameter as the cup.

Again, the lens will be shorter than the cup. How much differs by which cup you use. The #10 cup is designed for coverage, and the gas exiting the lens will be stabilized (at least in theory) by the gas lens. So it being shorter shouldn't be the issue. I'd run a test by cranking up the CFH and see if that helps/resolves it.

Do you happen to have a stubby #7 Alumina that you could thread on for a side-by-side to determine cup or lens as the issue?

By the way, I like Pyrex cups too. I use a #8 a LOT!

[MarkL]

... and the gas lens is a smaller diameter than the Pyrex cup.
I feel like the problem is either with the gas lens itself or the fact that it ends way before the end of the cup and isnt as big in diameter as the cup.

The mesh screen on my gas lens is slightly larger in diameter than the inside of the cup. So when I slide the cup on, I push it on slowly so it deflects the screen slightly and makes it the shape of a shallow dish. As an example, if you look at this photo of a Furick cup, you can see how the screen is dish shaped to keep it in tight contact with the inside of the cup.

[FireKracker50]

I do not have any Alumina cups for the gas lens.
Yes the lens is secured by the orings.
Here is the standard setup i use.

Here is the gas lens setup





I just grabbed some old scrap pieces out of the garage and did a few quick examples to show.
Areas in black are welded with gas lens, areas in green are with standard setup.

[Oni]

In my experience off brand gas lenses are very hit or miss, more miss than anything. Try a new gas lens from CK or Jody. For $18 at least you got a couple of back caps and other consumables.

[MarkL]

OK, I see what you have, I was not paying attention to your first photos. So it seems like either the lens body is not allowing a sufficient amount of gas to pass, or the gas is leaking somewhere else (like out the cap), or too much of the gas is flowing directly around the tungsten and not through the screen. You might put a bit of slightly soapy water around the seal on the cap to make sure it's not leaking.

[Oscar]

Thread the gas lens in all the way without anything else on the torch. Then look through the other side where the back cap would normally be so you can see if the gas lens collet body is blocking the shielding gas hole inside the torch head.

[exnailpounder]

Thread the gas lens in all the way without anything else on the torch. Then look through the other side where the back cap would normally be so you can see if the gas lens collet body is blocking the shielding gas hole inside the torch head.

The chinaman probably forgot to drill the hole on purpose... and still got paid. Hahaha..roundeye!

[FireKracker50]

I'll check that out. But I'm getting had flow I can hear and feel it coming out the cup. I'm thinking the gas lens itself is garbage. Or that too much gas is flowing around the tungsten. It's not a tight fit around tungsten.

[cj737]

Did your set come with all 4 lenses and collets? If so, swap to the 1/8 or 1/16 and see what results you get. I don't have the impression your welds are suffering from too little flow, or too much flow past the tungsten; rather the opposite.

[FireKracker50]

Yeah it came with all four. I'll try another size today.
If u don't think it's too low or too much past tungsten what do u think it is? Too turbulent flow?

[Superiorwelding]

Sorry you are having so many problems. Unfortunately, this is the name of the game with these extremely cheap, in many ways, gas lens kits. I quit using them all together. Spend the extra few dollars, and that is really all it is, on a quality name brand gas lens and you won't have these problems. Lesson learned for sure.

Also, one problem I ran into working on my Unbreakable TIG Cup™ was if the cup i.d. (at the exit) was larger than the gas lens itself your coverage is extremely poor. To use a larger cup than the gas lens you must have a secondary diffuser, as you see with all the large cups out there. If you wanted to make these cups work, and assuming the gas lens' themselves are "good" simply add a second diffuser and your coverage should improve.

Honestly though, we talked about this very problem in a podcast episode (don't remember which one) how these cheap kits just don't seem to work. Sure, one out of 100 might be fine but I feel you should learn on a regular collet body setup and when you master that move on to the more "exotic" stuff. Once you start to add all these variables in your learning you can quickly get frustrated and not know where to look for the problem. My opinion.
Jonathan

[Oscar]

Also, one problem I ran into working on my Unbreakable TIG Cup™ was if the cup i.d. (at the exit) was larger than the gas lens itself your coverage is extremely poor. To use a larger cup than the gas lens you must have a secondary diffuser, as you see with all the large cups out there. If you wanted to make these cups work, and assuming the gas lens' themselves are "good" simply add a second diffuser and your coverage should improve.
Jonathan

I agree 100%.

OP, if you notice, most "standard" gas lens, meaning medium-large that use regular pink alumina cups, all "stop" the cup size when the cup exit is the same size as the screen mesh (and even then, they still have a slight taper).

For example, if you are using a medium gas lens collet body on a 17/26 torch, I doubt you'll find many, if any at all, alumina cups that are larger than a #8. If you want an alumina cup larger than #8, you typically have to switch to a large diameter gas lens collet body.

If you are using a large diameter gas lens collet body, the largest you'll typically find is #12. If you look at the mesh screen on a large dia. gas lens collet body, turns out the mesh screen is about, yup you guessed it, 3/4"---the same size as the #12 cup exit orifice. The exception is the #15 cup. It doesn't really look like a cup, more like a thread on protector----it just covers the collet body and does not aid with maintaining laminar gas flow. I have one, and while it worked, the gas covered just wasn't what I felt "it should be" for that large of a "cup".



IMO, it's the same reason, the Furick FUPA cups have the mesh screen/diffuser in the first place----the tiny mesh on the gas lens collet body that it installs onto is simply not going to produce the laminar gas flow that is needed for good coverage.

I'd like to test my hypothesis with your gas lens, if you'd like. I still have some mesh screen left over from my experimentation, I can punch out some screens for you to try out. Just let me know what size tungstens you are using.

[motox]

Oscar the philanthropist, this really is a great forum!!!!!
craig

[FireKracker50]

I have from .040 up to 1/8th tungsten and gas lenses for this kit.
I have been using the 3/32" size thus far. I would like to know if a diffuser would remedy my troubles.
I am always experimenting with different things. I love to tinker.
I am an engineer by trade, angler by heart, and welder hobbyist.
I mainly learned to weld just to work on outboard motors as i enjoy building racing outboards. And because i break allot of stuff.

[Oscar]

I have from .040 up to 1/8th tungsten and gas lenses for this kit.
I have been using the 3/32" size thus far. I would like to know if a diffuser would remedy my troubles.
I am always experimenting with different things. I love to tinker.
I am an engineer by trade, angler by heart, and welder hobbyist.
I mainly learned to weld just to work on outboard motors as i enjoy building racing outboards. And because i break allot of stuff.

Great. Please take your favorite dial calipers and measure the ID of that clear nozzle, and I'll look for my mesh and punch out some screens maybe on Sunday or Monday. I'm not a philanthropist, I just like to make people aware that "I was right", LOL. And if I'm not, I just disappear for a good while so no one remembers, LOL.

[FireKracker50]

LOL
Sounds like a plan.
I will get those measurements for you.
I am ordering a flow meter to measure flow coming off the nozzle.
I have seen those videos where it looks like a fog machine coming out of the torch nozzle so you can see the improved flow from the gas lens. Is there a product i can pump thru my torch (safely) to create videos like this to post up on the forum showing the different flow profiles from out testing?

[Oscar]

LOL
Sounds like a plan.
I will get those measurements for you.
I am ordering a flow meter to measure flow coming off the nozzle.
I have seen those videos where it looks like a fog machine coming out of the torch nozzle so you can see the improved flow from the gas lens. Is there a product i can pump thru my torch (safely) to create videos like this to post up on the forum showing the different flow profiles from out testing?

I would advise against that so you don't inadvertently coat the entire inside of your gas line with crud that will otherwise contaminate an inert welding shielding gas the next time you use it.

[Poleframer]

On a different take on gas lenses...
I was given a tig setup, and the torch is a water cooled TEC model 429. Still available, and much smaller than any I see around, for a 250 amp torch. Gas nozzles as shown here are available, as well as quartz lenses.
The setup is very compact, as the lens or cup just fits into the rubber of the torch.
Wonder why these torches arent talked about on any sites I've been on.
I have alumina cups from #4 to #8, but no quartz clear lenses yet. Nice gift I think.







Oops, 300 amps...http://www.tectorch.com/PDF/Parts%20She ... _sheet.pdf

[MarkL]

Wonder why these torches arent talked about on any sites I've been on.

Tec makes Weldtec, that's the name most popular now. I think Tec is the name of their original torches? I know the welders where I worked were using them back in the 70s, so I think it's an old company. Jody did an article on how small their water cooled torches are, he really liked them.

[Poleframer]

Good point, I think the speedway line is an updated version of the 428-429 models that TEC has made for many years. I got it new in box, unused, and some curious stuff that must have laid in storage for many years. I replied to a UV thread about the smith torch saver, a similar valve that was in there was marked helium and water, so it was probably from the "heliarc" era.
Sort of a little time vault of tig gear, I do find it interesting that weldfabulous still sells the same torch, and all the parts.
Wonder if Jody used these torches in the past. He mentions that he likes small torches, and these sure fit the bill there.
Most of the stuff is top quality, it included a victor hvts regulator and flowmeter (price THAT new https://www.airgas.com/product/Gas-Equi ... C0781-3772) but the diaphrams were dry rotted, cost less to replace the diaphrams than the gas I lost finding it out.

[Juni_1976]

Ck worldwide has nice set they are kits by tungsten size #8 cup .040 - 1/8" run about $32 ea. That the best reputable product I found for the price. They also have a mixed set with alumina and glass cups from size 6 through 18 for about $200

[FireKracker50]

I completely forgot to get a measurement of that pyrex cup...
I did get some alumina cups in for my small gas lenses.
It does seem better than the #10 pyrex cup. I think the pyrex being larger than the gas lens was part of the problem.
But i still feel like a regular collet body and #6 cup welds better than the little stubby gas lens and #6 cup.
I took some pics i will post later.
Also i got a flow meter that you put on the end of your torch to measure your argon flow at the torch.
With my flow regulator set half way between 15cfh and 20cfh I have about 11cfh as measured coming from the torch. Is this normal?
I was concerned that the gas lens wasn't putting out the right amount of gas but it measures exactly the same as the standard collet body. I tried 2 collet bodies and 2 gas lenses and they all measured 11cfh.

[Oscar]

I completely forgot to get a measurement of that pyrex cup...
I did get some alumina cups in for my small gas lenses.
It does seem better than the #10 pyrex cup. I think the pyrex being larger than the gas lens was part of the problem.
But i still feel like a regular collet body and #6 cup welds better than the little stubby gas lens and #6 cup.
I took some pics i will post later.
Also i got a flow meter that you put on the end of your torch to measure your argon flow at the torch.
With my flow regulator set half way between 15cfh and 20cfh I have about 11cfh as measured coming from the torch. Is this normal?
I was concerned that the gas lens wasn't putting out the right amount of gas but it measures exactly the same as the standard collet body. I tried 2 collet bodies and 2 gas lenses and they all measured 11cfh.

That simply means that your regulator is "off". Time to invest in another one.

[Poland308]

Or just replace the gauges they go bad sometimes. The ones on my refrigerant gauges I replace about once a year when they start to read a little off.

[FireKracker50]

Both the regulator and flow meter are new. I have used one 125cf argon tank take thru it.
Its the regulator that came with my Everlast 256SI.
Also when i first press the pedal i get a huge puff the blasts way up on the meter and pegs the ball against the stop pin. IT stays there for about 1sec maybe closer to two sec then drops down to its regular flow rate. i have the preflow on my machine set to about 1 sec maybe a little more because if i dont the gas will make the startup arc go crazy. Is there anything that can be done about this? seems like it wastes allot of gas.