Always Clean Steel After Brushing? How to Get Broader Arc?

Chips O'Toole · Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:17 pm

I guess this is a stupid question, but if I use a wire brush on steel, should I always follow up with acetone? It sort of looks like it works that way. Today I worked on a piece of metal that was welding okay yesterday. At first, I just went over it with acetone, figuring it couldn't be that dirty after one day. Then I hit part of it with a wire brush. Then I welded. The part I brushed had obvious contamination problems when I welded, but the part I didn't brush seemed okay.

I don't know how clean that brush is.

I tried to do a fillet weld today. First I did it without filler, and I managed to get it to work, and then I did the other side of the metal with filler, which was harder. The filler side was an area I had brushed, and the metal didn't want to flow. Anyway, I had a hard time getting the vertical and horizontal parts to melt at the same time. I think the area the arc was hitting might have been too small. I was using a very sharp 3/32" tungsten. Should I make it a little less sharp to get a wider arc?

Final thing: is it my imagination, or do fillet welds throw heat back at you? My right glove got hot very fast today. It seemed like the vertical bit was reflecting heat at me.

MinnesotaDave · Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:36 pm

These might help you out.

Farmwelding · Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:46 pm

Imagine fillet welds as a mug and flat plate welds as a eating plate. Stick your hand over the plate and then the mug. Which has more heat radiating off that affects your hand. The mug because the heat is more concentrated. Either way...if that didn't make sense-yes because the radiant heat has less places to go so it gets kicked back at you

Edit: with the mug and plate put coffe or hot liquid or something hot on them. You fill a mug you have three inches or so of concentrated heat whereas on the plate you have more interaction with room temp air so there is more cooling and more heat dissipation.

Maybe if I get around to I'll draw a diagram.

Poland308 · Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:14 pm

Farmwelding wrote:Imagine fillet welds as a mug and flare plate welds as a plate. Stick your hand over the plate and then the mug. Which has more heat radiating off that affects your hand. The mug because the heat is more concentrated. Either way...if that didn't make sense-yes because the radiant heat has less places Ti go so it gets kicked back at you

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:01 am

Assuming you are using steel, are you grinding the mill scale off to bright shiny metal? A wire brush won't even scratch mill scale. Bright shiny metal, not shiny mill scale. I got nothing for the hot glove scenario. If you're hand is propped on your base metal , it's going to get hot.

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:02 am

Poland308 wrote:
Farmwelding wrote:Imagine fillet welds as a mug and flare plate welds as a plate. Stick your hand over the plate and then the mug. Which has more heat radiating off that affects your hand. The mug because the heat is more concentrated. Either way...if that didn't make sense-yes because the radiant heat has less places Ti go so it gets kicked back at you

I think somebody is using the welding booth for something more than welding

cj737 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:18 am

exnailpounder wrote:
Poland308 wrote:
Farmwelding wrote:Imagine fillet welds as a mug and flare plate welds as a plate. Stick your hand over the plate and then the mug. Which has more heat radiating off that affects your hand. The mug because the heat is more concentrated. Either way...if that didn't make sense-yes because the radiant heat has less places Ti go so it gets kicked back at you

I think somebody is using the welding booth for something more than welding

Or perhaps he has Argon plumbed into his PPE and not oxygen?

If your right hand is your torch hand, then whether it is in contact or near the welding, the metal gets hot. Really hot. The higher the amps, the longer your bead, the hotter it gets. No mugs, plates or soup bowls needed to explain it. This is exactly the reason Jody's TIG finger is so popular.

Your rod hand will get scorched too as you near the end of the filler wire and close down on your left fingers with the torch. The smell of frying leather mixed with cooking flesh will become as normal to you as the aroma of hot steel and Argon before long. And you'll have the warped and shriveled gloves to prove it.

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:18 am

Try this. Turn on the smallest and largest burners on your stove to high. When they are glowing hot, put your left hand on the small burner and hold it there for 5 seconds. Then do the same with the right hand on the large burner. Now you know how that steel feels when you are welding it.

Chips O'Toole · Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:15 pm

I don't think I'm qualified to do that correctly. Since you know a lot more about welding than I do, could you do it and put it on Youtube?

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:04 pm

Chips O'Toole wrote:I don't think I'm qualified to do that correctly. Since you know a lot more about welding than I do, could you do it and put it on Youtube?

Ok, but if you don't get a link it will be because I can't type.

Chips O'Toole · Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:24 pm

Everyone here is so helpful.

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:36 pm

Have a drink there fellers...it's all good. Just a little ball-bustin. electrodes a good dude...don't think he meant any harm...he eats with his hands and wipes with burlap so he's a little rough around the edges...nyuck nyuck nyuck.

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:40 pm

Chips O'Toole wrote:Everyone here is so helpful.

Come on Chips...we help new guys all the time. That's the best thing about this site is Steve doesn't allow any egos. We all know new guys need help and usually everyone bends over backwards to help out. I think there was a communication breakdown here somewhere.

Chips O'Toole · Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:52 pm

You mean he's not really going to make the video?

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:58 pm

Chips O'Toole wrote:You mean he's not really going to make the video?

motox · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Always Clean Steel After Brushing? How to Get Broader Ar
Postby electrode » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:18 am

Try this. Turn on the smallest and largest burners on your stove to high. When they are glowing hot, put your left hand on the small burner and hold it there for 5 seconds. Then do the same with the right hand on the large burner. Now you know how that steel feels when you are welding it.

sounds like a job for JODY BOURDAIN......

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:07 pm

motox wrote:Re: Always Clean Steel After Brushing? How to Get Broader Ar
Postby electrode » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:18 am

Try this. Turn on the smallest and largest burners on your stove to high. When they are glowing hot, put your left hand on the small burner and hold it there for 5 seconds. Then do the same with the right hand on the large burner. Now you know how that steel feels when you are welding it.

sounds like a job for JODY BOURDAIN......

Who the F is that

Chips O'Toole · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:25 pm

In all seriousness, everyone here IS helpful. I have joined a lot of forums, and a forum where people aren't jerks stands out.

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:34 pm

Chips O'Toole wrote:In all seriousness, everyone here IS helpful. I have joined a lot of forums, and a forum where people aren't jerks stands out.

Ask away Chips...in my eyes there are no stupid questions. People seeking knowledge of a subject they are just getting into need to ask questions. I bought my first lathe last year and asked questions..that didn't make me stupid. I built a casting furnace and had to ask questions...didn't make me stupid again. One day welding will click in your head and you'll wonder what all the fuss is about. If you have a yeomans mind , you'll do yeomans work.

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:20 pm

Actually, I was referring to this post by farm boy when I made my little joke:

Imagine fillet welds as a mug and flat plate welds as a eating plate. Stick your hand over the plate and then the mug. Which has more heat radiating off that affects your hand. The mug because the heat is more concentrated. Either way...if that didn't make sense-yes because the radiant heat has less places to go so it gets kicked back at you

Edit: with the mug and plate put coffe or hot liquid or something hot on them. You fill a mug you have three inches or so of concentrated heat whereas on the plate you have more interaction with room temp air so there is more cooling and more heat dissipation.

Maybe if I get around to I'll draw a diagram.

No harm intended, just the first thing that popped ("pooped" as farm boy would say) into my head after reading that. I just forgot to quote the post and added it to the end. Will you forgive me?

Just kidding around.

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:21 pm

Chips O'Toole wrote:You mean he's not really going to make the video?

No, he is not.

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:23 pm

exnailpounder wrote:Have a drink there fellers...it's all good. Just a little ball-bustin. electrodes a good dude...don't think he meant any harm...he eats with his hands and wipes with burlap so he's a little rough around the edges...nyuck nyuck nyuck.

How do you know what I wipe with??

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:27 pm

Chips O'Toole wrote:I guess this is a stupid question, but if I use a wire brush on steel, should I always follow up with acetone? It sort of looks like it works that way. Today I worked on a piece of metal that was welding okay yesterday. At first, I just went over it with acetone, figuring it couldn't be that dirty after one day. Then I hit part of it with a wire brush. Then I welded. The part I brushed had obvious contamination problems when I welded, but the part I didn't brush seemed okay.

I don't know how clean that brush is.

I tried to do a fillet weld today. First I did it without filler, and I managed to get it to work, and then I did the other side of the metal with filler, which was harder. The filler side was an area I had brushed, and the metal didn't want to flow. Anyway, I had a hard time getting the vertical and horizontal parts to melt at the same time. I think the area the arc was hitting might have been too small. I was using a very sharp 3/32" tungsten. Should I make it a little less sharp to get a wider arc?

Final thing: is it my imagination, or do fillet welds throw heat back at you? My right glove got hot very fast today. It seemed like the vertical bit was reflecting heat at me.

Put a small flat on the tungsten, keep the torch angle as straight as you can (70 degrees or less, 90 degrees is tough to see what you are doing), and maintain as close a distance to the work, without dipping, as you can. Like 1/16" of an inch is a good distance to shoot for.

exnailpounder · Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:48 pm

electrode wrote:
exnailpounder wrote:Have a drink there fellers...it's all good. Just a little ball-bustin. electrodes a good dude...don't think he meant any harm...he eats with his hands and wipes with burlap so he's a little rough around the edges...nyuck nyuck nyuck.
How do you know what I wipe with??

I think you missed the part where I said you're a good dude. Sorry to offend you.

electrode · Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:52 pm

exnailpounder wrote:
electrode wrote:
exnailpounder wrote:Have a drink there fellers...it's all good. Just a little ball-bustin. electrodes a good dude...don't think he meant any harm...he eats with his hands and wipes with burlap so he's a little rough around the edges...nyuck nyuck nyuck.
How do you know what I wipe with??
I think you missed the part where I said you're a good dude. Sorry to offend you.

I didn't miss that. And I appreciate you saying that.

But I really use Angel Soft (double rolls) so I needed to clear that up asap.

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