Nice, Jeff, and a great analysis on the base penetration. I think this could be limited with torch angle adjustments, but it may be finer control than a blind shaky guy like me can manage. I won't get to do a cut/etch before Saturday, as there's a priority job right now that's meant to be done Friday, and I always get the priority jobs...
What did you etch with?
Steve S
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I used Naval Jelly and when I thought that didn't do a good job I used oxalic acid( Barkeepers Friend) Not ideal but better than nothing and the details show.Otto Nobedder wrote:Nice, Jeff, and a great analysis on the base penetration. I think this could be limited with torch angle adjustments, but it may be finer control than a blind shaky guy like me can manage. I won't get to do a cut/etch before Saturday, as there's a priority job right now that's meant to be done Friday, and I always get the priority jobs...
What did you etch with?
Steve S
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First thing I'll try is Alubabrite. It quickly etches clean aluminum, but I'm not sure it will contrast the weld nugget. We'll see. I know it works a treat on stainless steel that's had the CrO2 recently buffed off.exnailpounder wrote:I used Naval Jelly and when I thought that didn't do a good job I used oxalic acid( Barkeepers Friend) Not ideal but better than nothing and the details show.Otto Nobedder wrote:Nice, Jeff, and a great analysis on the base penetration. I think this could be limited with torch angle adjustments, but it may be finer control than a blind shaky guy like me can manage. I won't get to do a cut/etch before Saturday, as there's a priority job right now that's meant to be done Friday, and I always get the priority jobs...
What did you etch with?
Steve S
Also, I'll be welding known material. 5052 base with 4943 filler.
Will report results, of course.
Steve S
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Both those suggestions make sense. Alkaline, rather than acid, might reduce raw aluminum better.
We shall see.
Steve S
We shall see.
Steve S
New brite coil cleaner from any hvac supply house. It's alkaline and concentrated. They sell gallons for about $30. It's water soluble. I've seen it eat the aluminum fins off of a condenser coil if left on too long.
I have more questions than answers
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We use that to clean AC coils, works!
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I have a slow-developing etch underway. The oven cleaner appears to be the ticket. If I decide to do this regularly, I'll by a tub of lye.
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Look forward to seeing this, doing a little reading about lye, when in contact with aluminum produces hydrogen gas.Otto Nobedder wrote:I have a slow-developing etch underway. The oven cleaner appears to be the ticket. If I decide to do this regularly, I'll by a tub of lye.
Steve S
Steve I've haven't done any etching but am interested in the process, any details are appreciated, maybe even a thread dedicated to this?
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Here's the etch. The point I was making was breaking the edge of the leg on a Tee joint, and this shows it. I'm a bit disappointed in the penetration on the base, but it's sufficient.
Steve S
- Al Etch.jpg (35.25 KiB) Viewed 784 times
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Next to the leg of your tee..on both sides is a little flat spot before the obvious penetration...that's a little bridging and that's hard to avoid when doing thick to thin. I bet if you put some dye penetrant on it, it would show a tiny crack there. You had the same result I had which is when you taper the leg, it becomes a thicker to thinner scenario. I can see where on the right side you concentrated your heat more on the thicker piece...or the metal was just super hot when you welded it. You have to move out so as not to melt the thin leg at the expense of getting less penetration on the thicker piece. I do alot of thick to thin stuff on other metals and I always concentrate the heat on the thick piece and wash up onto the thinner piece but aluminum doesn't work like that. If you're using enough amps to melt 1/4" AL...then those same amps will flat melt out thinner material. I had to weld some .062 box tube AL to 3/16"...what a freaking nightmare...I did it but the thin metal is almost at critical mass before you hardly make a dent in the thicker stuff. There is alot more to welding aluminum than it just looks cool.
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- 20170430_110132.jpg (41.78 KiB) Viewed 758 times
This is a little blurry because my camera on my phone sux but you can really see the nugget on this one. I used Zep concentrated purple cleaner which has sodium hydroxide in it. Really etches good.
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Actually, Jeff, this was prepped square. I did not taper the leg of the tee. I was hoping to demonstrate penetrating into the corner for full depth on the weld, rather than bridging over it with filler. What I think happened was the "table", a slab of 1/2" aluminum, acted as a heat sink and limited my penetration into the base.
Yes, I noticed the little flat spot. In one I broke (I used an L-dog and wedge to dog down a big gap on a doubler, fillet on one side, broke off with hammer after) I noticed molten aluminum wicked into the joint beyond the penetration, giving a distinct appearance of a line of lack of fusion. I wish I'd photo'd that.
Storming like crazy here at the moment, lightning dancing all around. I live among the trees, so that always makes me a bit nervous.
Steve
Yes, I noticed the little flat spot. In one I broke (I used an L-dog and wedge to dog down a big gap on a doubler, fillet on one side, broke off with hammer after) I noticed molten aluminum wicked into the joint beyond the penetration, giving a distinct appearance of a line of lack of fusion. I wish I'd photo'd that.
Storming like crazy here at the moment, lightning dancing all around. I live among the trees, so that always makes me a bit nervous.
Steve
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My second pic is the same as yours. I didn't taper either but it just hit me...if we did taper and this was our weld profile, we would have had almost no penetration into the leg of the T. But if you look at my first attempt, you can see very obvious lack of penetration on the bottom of the T on the tapered one and come to think of it...I welded on a big slab of 3/4" AL myself...wonder if that could have skewed anything? This cutting and etching sure is an eye opener. I don't weld AL very much but I will pay more attention from now on.Otto Nobedder wrote:Actually, Jeff, this was prepped square. I did not taper the leg of the tee. I was hoping to demonstrate penetrating into the corner for full depth on the weld, rather than bridging over it with filler. What I think happened was the "table", a slab of 1/2" aluminum, acted as a heat sink and limited my penetration into the base.
Yes, I noticed the little flat spot. In one I broke (I used an L-dog and wedge to dog down a big gap on a doubler, fillet on one side, broke off with hammer after) I noticed molten aluminum wicked into the joint beyond the penetration, giving a distinct appearance of a line of lack of fusion. I wish I'd photo'd that.
Storming like crazy here at the moment, lightning dancing all around. I live among the trees, so that always makes me a bit nervous.
Steve
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Jeff, I'm stunned at the difference in penetration between the leg and the base, and since you said you used a slab of aluminum as your table as well, I really do have to wonder if the heat sink effect affected our penetration on the base.
Amazing the things we learn when we try to teach others...
Steve
Amazing the things we learn when we try to teach others...
Steve
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I use that thick slab of AL I have for a heat sink for SS so I would almost bet that using it for AL had some effect. And I also thought about this; it matters where you take your slice out because as you are welding towards the end of a piece, heat is building with no where to go and you have to start backing down the pedal so it matters penetration wise...also, I am guessing for a true test, the piece would have to be cooled or quenched between welds...all things being equal...Here's the biggest question yet...WTF was the point of all this in the first place I need a drinkOtto Nobedder wrote:Jeff, I'm stunned at the difference in penetration between the leg and the base, and since you said you used a slab of aluminum as your table as well, I really do have to wonder if the heat sink effect affected our penetration on the base.
Amazing the things we learn when we try to teach others...
Steve
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