BAD GAS/WRONG GAS - Page 1

LtBadd · Thu May 04, 2017 8:07 pm

Otto Nobedder wrote: Hit each surface to be welded, and a short distance on both sides of the intended weld with at least a wire wheel, and wipe down with acetone or isopropyl alcohol to remove any oils.
Steve

If I may just add, be sure it's a stainless brush/wire wheel that hasn't been used/contaminated with other materials such as steel.

Mattwho777 · Thu May 04, 2017 9:57 pm

Mattwho777 · Thu May 04, 2017 9:57 pm

Looks like this

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Olivero · Thu May 04, 2017 11:25 pm

Mattwho777 wrote:Looks like this

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dude... that's definetley messed up. That could 100% be a contamination issue on the aluminum's side but definetley also a gas issue like you mentioned but aluminum needs an inert gas like steel does so in theory, if you can weld steel with it, you should be able to do aluminum..... That just looks plain messed up.............

I know most people won't like this but for shits and giggles, run a new or clean wire wheel over an area of the aluminum and try welding that spot.

Thu May 04, 2017 11:50 pm

Um, Matt, this may be a silly question, but what machine are you using?
The reason I ask is, in your profile, under "equipment used", you don't list a machine that's capable of welding aluminum.

Steve

ignatz200 · Fri May 05, 2017 2:33 am

Another possible place to look for the problem is the back cap on your TIG torch... you know, that part you screw in at the back to tighten the collet that holds the tungsten electrode in place.

If the O-ring on that back cap is damaged or otherwise not sealing, then the torch will suck air in from the back while running.

This very problem happened to me a week or so ago. I purchased a new, medium-length back cap. After putting it into service I started to get nothing but cooked, pit-blackened welds, full of porosity. I suddenly felt like I had forgotten how to weld completely. Very frustrating.

Turns out that for some silly reason the groove to hold the O-ring in that back cap was off-center, so that one edge of the O-ring wasn't contacting the torch body to make a complete seal. Result: Cooked steel (grrrrrr!)

motox · Fri May 05, 2017 6:14 am

you welding on DC?
craig

Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 8:05 am

Otto Nobedder wrote:Um, Matt, this may be a silly question, but what machine are you using?
The reason I ask is, in your profile, under "equipment used", you don't list a machine that's capable of welding aluminum.

Steve

Steve it is an Everlast PowerPro 164Si. AC/DC Tig/Stick/Plasma

Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 8:06 am

ignatz200 wrote:Another possible place to look for the problem is the back cap on your TIG torch... you know, that part you screw in at the back to tighten the collet that holds the tungsten electrode in place.

If the O-ring on that back cap is damaged or otherwise not sealing, then the torch will suck air in from the back while running.

This very problem happened to me a week or so ago. I purchased a new, medium-length back cap. After putting it into service I started to get nothing but cooked, pit-blackened welds, full of porosity. I suddenly felt like I had forgotten how to weld completely. Very frustrating.

Turns out that for some silly reason the groove to hold the O-ring in that back cap was off-center, so that one edge of the O-ring wasn't contacting the torch body to make a complete seal. Result: Cooked steel (grrrrrr!)

Ok thanks, I'll check that out.

Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 8:07 am

motox wrote:you welding on DC?
craig

NO, welding on ac

exnailpounder · Fri May 05, 2017 8:36 am

Hard to tell from the pic but is your AL clean? There's a whole lot going on there. Can you send a better pic?

MarkL · Fri May 05, 2017 8:49 am

If I get my machine too close to what I'm welding, the outlet from the cooling fan blows the shielding gas away and can make some pretty nasty looking welds.

Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 8:58 am

exnailpounder wrote:Hard to tell from the pic but is your AL clean? There's a whole lot going on there. Can you send a better pic?

It was cleaned, I'll try some more tonight and take some more pics...

Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 9:00 am

MarkL wrote:If I get my machine too close to what I'm welding, the outlet from the cooling fan blows the shielding gas away and can make some pretty nasty looking welds.

Yeah I know what you mean. I had the machine facing/blowing away from what I'm welding. No fans on, closed off shop.

exnailpounder · Fri May 05, 2017 9:03 am

Mattwho777 wrote:
exnailpounder wrote:Hard to tell from the pic but is your AL clean? There's a whole lot going on there. Can you send a better pic?
It was cleaned, I'll try some more tonight and take some more pics...

Pics always help. Send in your settings too. Helps to know everything you're doing. We'll get it straightened out...we always do

Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 9:05 am

exnailpounder wrote:
Mattwho777 wrote:
exnailpounder wrote:Hard to tell from the pic but is your AL clean? There's a whole lot going on there. Can you send a better pic?
It was cleaned, I'll try some more tonight and take some more pics...
Pics always help. Send in your settings too. Helps to know everything you're doing. We'll get it straightened out...we always do

No problem

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Mattwho777 · Fri May 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Brand new s.s. brush. Wiped after brushing with alcohol.

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Farmwelding · Fri May 05, 2017 8:43 pm

What kind of filler metal are you using?

exnailpounder · Fri May 05, 2017 9:00 pm

Hey Matt...are you having these problems when you add filler? What happens when you just try getting a puddle and then advancing with no filler? Gonna be a lot of questions as we have to use the process of elimination here. Another thing...what is your balance set at? I don't know your machine so if you can find out what the optimum balance setting is, set it there and try it and see what happens. Trying to eliminate everything before we get to gas. I'm leaning towards the machine settings because you don't have alot of black soot around your welds, they are just crapped up really bad so it might not be gas at all.

Fri May 05, 2017 9:05 pm

Your gas supplier should analyze your bottle for free, if you take to them. I would do this. The last likely cause beyond a gas issue (since it welds fine on DC) is an internal machine issue with the AC mode. Everlast is great at handling those, but I'd rule out the gas first for certainty.

The last time I experienced welds like this on HFAC aluminum was with a water-cooled torch, and I discovered the company the machines were rented from used (hard Pennsylvania) tap water and cheap automotive antifreeze for coolant. The HF would conduct through this mess, and I don't understand the damage, but it would start welding like yours, so I suspect a machine issue.

Steve

exnailpounder · Fri May 05, 2017 9:15 pm

Otto Nobedder wrote:Your gas supplier should analyze your bottle for free, if you take to them. I would do this. The last likely cause beyond a gas issue (since it welds fine on DC) is an internal machine issue with the AC mode. Everlast is great at handling those, but I'd rule out the gas first for certainty.

The last time I experienced welds like this on HFAC aluminum was with a water-cooled torch, and I discovered the company the machines were rented from used (hard Pennsylvania) tap water and cheap automotive antifreeze for coolant. The HF would conduct through this mess, and I don't understand the damage, but it would start welding like yours, so I suspect a machine issue.

Steve

Hey Steve...I'm with you on machine problems...if it was gas he would have soot around the welds...he is getting cleaning action but it's very erratic so it might just be a balance problem or a very long arc.

cj737 · Sat May 06, 2017 7:43 am

And for clarity sake, what exactly is the spec on the aluminum? Some ally is non-weldable-

exnailpounder · Sat May 06, 2017 8:09 am

All aluminum alloys will weld. The ones considered "unweldable" can and probably will crack.

Mattwho777 · Sat May 06, 2017 8:57 am

exnailpounder wrote:
Otto Nobedder wrote:Your gas supplier should analyze your bottle for free, if you take to them. I would do this. The last likely cause beyond a gas issue (since it welds fine on DC) is an internal machine issue with the AC mode. Everlast is great at handling those, but I'd rule out the gas first for certainty.

The last time I experienced welds like this on HFAC aluminum was with a water-cooled torch, and I discovered the company the machines were rented from used (hard Pennsylvania) tap water and cheap automotive antifreeze for coolant. The HF would conduct through this mess, and I don't understand the damage, but it would start welding like yours, so I suspect a machine issue.

Steve
Hey Steve...I'm with you on machine problems...if it was gas he would have soot around the welds...he is getting cleaning action but it's very erratic so it might just be a balance problem or a very long arc.

If it's not the material then I think it is a ac problem with the machine. I tried the ac balance from 20-50 and still had the problems.

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exnailpounder · Sat May 06, 2017 9:12 am

It's almost assuredly not a material problem if it's good, clean AL. By the way..how thick is your material?
I'm pretty sure your manufacturer will suggest ideal settings for balance. If your balance is way off, you will have nothing but problems. It's pretty common for new AL welders to show up here with exactly the same problems you're having and it is almost never a machine defect. Your balance should remain around the ideal setting except when you encounter really dirty material. It looks to me like you are way into the cleaning side of balance so that's why I keep hinting at finding the correct setting.