Tig welding tips, questions, equipment, applications, instructions, techniques, tig welding machines, troubleshooting tig welding process
dave powelson
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is this the 'kink' area you're describing?
crushed%20frame circle .jpg
crushed%20frame circle .jpg (107.55 KiB) Viewed 1312 times
If the control arm was ripped off, just what is that area of the frame, etc.-like?
In any case repair setup really should include good dimensional checks on all frame
measurements on a decent frame machine.
You state " The car is still in alignment but the rail needs to be repaired or replaced."

??? in alignment as in wheel alignment--or full blown alignment checks on a frame machine?
Real world would mean doing the repair on the frame machine to keep verifying and maintaining alignments of the entire
frame and its datum points.
That has everything to do with panels and parts fitting/functioning and vehicle performance/reliability.
I've got no idea how GM discusses frame machine repair methods on AL framed, corvettes.
That would be good for you to find out.
Last edited by dave powelson on Sat May 27, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stefuel
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Hey, I just a dumbass country boy my self. Right click on the picture and save it to "my pictures" in a .jpg format. Open it in 'my pictures" and you will have the option to "zoom" it. In the picture you are seeing 100% of the damage.

IITYWYBMAD
robtg
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Looks totaled to me.
exnailpounder
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stefuel wrote:Hey, I just a dumbass country boy my self. Right click on the picture and save it to "my pictures" in a .jpg format. Open it in 'my pictures" and you will have the option to "zoom" it. In the picture you are seeing 100% of the damage.

IITYWYBMAD
OR...take a couple more closeups for us 8-)
Ifyoucantellmewhatthissaysiwillbuyyouabeer.
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zooming a <200 KB picture will just blurr the pixels. It's clear that no one can clearly see the damaged part, at least I can't. I don't know if that part circled in red is the shape it is supposed to be, or the damaged part. All this could be avoided with a proper picture in the first place. You can buy a phone at a gas station with an 8MP camera now a days. :)
Image
stefuel
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OK I only have one picture so ask 3 or 4 more times and it might help. The yellow line is where it is. The red line is where it's supposed to be. I know exactly how I'm going to attempt the repair. How to do it is not the issue. It will be a sleeved repair using ER 5356 filler rod. I'm just looking for information about 6063-T7 aluminum, where to get it and if it can be radius bent without cracking.
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crushed frame.jpg
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cj737
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Here is some basic information on bending aluminum alloys for your research:
http://www.clintonaluminum.com/which-al ... ends-best/

I don't know where you live, but, if the insurance company "totals" a vehicle where I live, the title for that vehicle is now a "Salvage Title" and the vehicle is no longer road worthy. In order to reinstate the vehicle to usable on the road, a State Inspection is performed to insure the vehicle has been completely and properly repaired.

To that end, I think what you are considering doing, is very risky and very dangerous for you, and any other person who may in the future own/operate the car. I saw where you wrote, "I plan to keep the car...". But there is little assurance that means until the car rots away and returns to the earth as a post-consumable pile of scrap metal. So I would caution you (as respectfully as I can) that what you are about to undertake is not a DIY in the driveway type repair. It needs to be performed on a frame jig by a professional frame shop. If it were a steel tubed hot rod and you wanted to channel it, that's a different thing. But an alloy framed modern vehicle is a world apart. Because you can, does not translate to you should.

Just some input from someone who has dealt with similar but not the same issues.
exnailpounder
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I would pass on that repair. I'm out.
Ifyoucantellmewhatthissaysiwillbuyyouabeer.
wfolarry
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You should be able to get a frame repair section from GM. Cut out the damaged section & weld in the new section. They have instructions on how to do this.
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wfolarry wrote:You should be able to get a frame repair section from GM. Cut out the damaged section & weld in the new section. They have instructions on how to do this.
Chances are he's trying to do this on the cheap and won't want to pay GM prices.
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Poland308
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Since all sorts of new vehicles are starting to use aluminum frames I bet this will soon become a common repair.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
cj737
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Poland308 wrote:Since all sorts of new vehicles are starting to use aluminum frames I bet this will soon become a common repair.
This is quite true. Even body panels are moving towards alloy. BUT, the repair procedures at the Dealerships is per manufacturer guidelines. That is the means by which insurance liability and road-worthy certificates can be re-issued. Ford has required Dealers to purchase and become certified on specialized repairs for the F-x50 trucks body panels alone. I have no idea about possible frame repairs. The machinability (forming/bending) of the frame material is a major factor in repairs.
electrode
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Also, China will make you anything you want. Just gotta find the right factory that doesn't produce shoddy stuff. A dollar goes a looooong way over there. Just gotta keep the shipping in check. ;)
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stefuel
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This is a very rough sketch of what I plan on removing from the OEM frame for access to straighten it out. I think it can be done with no problem and in under a day. The alternative is remove the engine cradle, suspension, drivers side interior, floor, cross members and supports. Then sawzall the frame in half per the manual and splice under the rocker panel. a new frame rail is about a thousand dollars and about 40-60 hours of your time to do it. PM me a e-mail address and I'll send the first responder a copy of the manual See section 2-20
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Poland308
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What would I cost to buy the part of the frame you need from another wrecked car? Like one that got rear ended.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
Coldman
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I not buying into the legal/moral side of this, just from a purely metal repair aspect only.

One possibility is to cut out the damaged section as per your sketch, anneal it, work it back into shape, heat treat it to T7 and MIG weld it back in quick with 5356 as per GM recommendation. Much of the T7 temper lost in the weld heat affected zone will recover with a few weeks of age due to the nature of 6063 alloy. I can't see why this wouldn't be a valid repair.
Of course if the damaged section is torn or cracked it probably can't be re-used.

Why don't you open your one and only pic in paint, zoom into the damage, re-save it as a pdf and post it up for us to see instead of expecting everyone to do it for you individually?
Flat out like a lizard drinkin'
Turbo
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I think your going to make things worse by cutting and welding on it. Obviously your not going heat treat it again when your done. You said it's in alignment, so why does it need to be fixed?
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dave powelson
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Turbo wrote:I think your going to make things worse by cutting and welding on it. Obviously your not going heat treat it again when your done. You said it's in alignment, so why does it need to be fixed?
....ummm...the OP hasn't replied to my query of alignment--wheel alignment is one thing,
frame alignment of every datum and fixture point is totally another--which I mentioned-prior.
A good impact hit can tweak frame alignment from front to rear and the sides. That's why
repair shops put vehicle on frame alignment machines to check.

I'll second your question about why bothering to repair at all.
OP has already indicated that he's going to do it his way, anyway.
Coldman
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Zoomed the pic for a closer look.
I recon there is little chance the chassis is not out of alignment. I don't think cut-bash-reweld will fix it strength for safety or geometrically.
You need to replace that section on a chassis table.
Flat out like a lizard drinkin'
exnailpounder
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Coldman wrote:Zoomed the pic for a closer look.
I recon there is little chance the chassis is not out of alignment. I don't think cut-bash-reweld will fix it strength for safety or geometrically.
You need to replace that section on a chassis table.
Good answer Coldie. Not to change the subject...just curious...do you guys have American cars down under?
Ifyoucantellmewhatthissaysiwillbuyyouabeer.
Poland308
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They use em for mail carriers only.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
stefuel
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I have a offer in on this car based on worst case. If and when it gets here, the first thing that happens is the door and rocker panel come off and 8 measurements will be taken. If those 8 measurements jive, I will be doing minor surgery and not a transplant. A transplant includes a lot of cutting and welding of much more critical areas then where I want to cut and weld.
If half the rail does in fact have to be replaced then so be it. I can't do any more damage to what's there by trying. There is nothing critical in that spot but it does need to be flat in that section to remount the windshield washer tank
stefuel
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Like this
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Coldman
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exnailpounder wrote:
Coldman wrote:Zoomed the pic for a closer look.
I recon there is little chance the chassis is not out of alignment. I don't think cut-bash-reweld will fix it strength for safety or geometrically.
You need to replace that section on a chassis table.
Good answer Coldie. Not to change the subject...just curious...do you guys have American cars down under?
We have cars from all over including American. Petrol heads drool over camaros, vettes and mustangs. We even have an Australian compliant mustang right hand drive out of the factory sold by Ford Australia. Both Ford Australia and GM are shutting down their Australian factories shortly and all future models will be imported. I prefer the classic muscle cars myself. My friend is restoring a 33 chevy (coupe?) right now but fitting a new 350 and he's a pom.


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