Welding Tips and Tricks

nelson wrote: There's no preflow on my unit when using the pedal. The gush happens when the arc starts.

The manual for that machine indicates the preflow is factory set and not adjustable, but it doesn't say how long it lasts. It seems like 1/2 second is common on other machines I've seen.

There's no problem I've seen from this behaviour. Just wasteful i think. I use 80 cf tanks and I found out recently how much $. $32 for gas, $25 for delivery...I've stopped the deliveries. It's an hour trip to the LWS so a good excuse to get outside.

I was freaked out when I got my machine because the postflow is not adjustable, so I figured out what it was costing me. At 15cfh it costs me 4 cents/minute or .067 cents/second for argon. I get my 80cf tank filled for $13, so that's cheaper than what you're paying. Knowing the actual cost helped me stop thinking about it even though it still bugs me that I can't adjust it.

Switch to a torch that has a built in gas valve. Then you control it even when the machine thinks it knows better. It's a built in needle valve at the torch so you could actually set it and leave it in place with some superglue to get the desired effect.

Point taken Ig.

When I'm doing an inside corner on Alum I usually have problems with the arc dancing. I use long stick out to help a bit. If there was a nice stable flow at first would that help?

The arc is going thru a gas. Does the arc prefer a different more easily ionized gas? I mean a DC or low hz current will take the shortest path unless it finds an easier one...like a little vortex of air amid the argon flow.

Welding is like making babies...everybody likes to do it, some like to talk about it, but you shouldn't do both at once.

I usually tap the pedal to make sure I've got argon already in the cup when I start. If your worried about saving pennies on gas you can probably get a better deal with a bigger tank, but I don't think 25$ for an 80 is that bad. I pay about 25$ to get a 125 filled.

The problem of arc dancing on an aluminum inside corner may be improved with better grounding. I use a meter long piece of stranded copper wire to wrap around my aluminum parts.

I doubt surge wastes as much as the fixed 15 sec. postflow on some of the new machines. At least the surge is fixable.

Poland308 wrote:Switch to a torch that has a built in gas valve. Then you control it even when the machine thinks it knows better. It's a built in needle valve at the torch so you could actually set it and leave it in place with some superglue to get the desired effect.

Do you think something like this would work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Pressure ... Swn-tZHAod

Perhaps installed at the machine outlet ?

If the machine uses standard threaded fitting for a mono cable torch you can just buy a cheap floating ball meter / needle valve & fit it to the machine front then re-fit the torch - I have one on mine & have seen quite a few like it - think Len has it on his though sadly he does'nt seem to be around these days - it is a good check on combined flow when blending from separate cylinders & if you were paying UK price argon any gas saving is good ( insert BOC hate message here ! )

Oscar wrote:

Poland308 wrote:Switch to a torch that has a built in gas valve. Then you control it even when the machine thinks it knows better. It's a built in needle valve at the torch so you could actually set it and leave it in place with some superglue to get the desired effect.

Do you think something like this would work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Pressure ... Swn-tZHAod

Perhaps installed at the machine outlet ?

Looks like it's a needle valve designed to regulate flow. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.

could this problem be solver by lowering the output pressure on the regulator and opening the needle valve on the flow meter more to maintain the same argon flow?

mpete53 wrote:could this problem be solver by lowering the output pressure on the regulator and opening the needle valve on the flow meter more to maintain the same argon flow?

That would work as well. If you have a regulator you can adjust.

Yes - stop buying those retarded flow meter things that are set to insane pressures - get a decent adjustable regulator ( a twin stage oxy gauge works really well - if it bothers you you can swap the little pressure gauges over to some that say argon ) - put a floating ball on the output - adjust it to the minimum pressure needed to achieve fractionally more flow than you use - fine trim the actual flow with the needle valve - no more big surge ! there are dedicated regulators designed to achieve consistent flow without surge but they are kinda pricey for hobby use.

Thanks all! I'm gonna fix this for sure. I did a tiny fix job an noticed the surge was messing with the arc. That said, I have 20 feet of 1/4 od tube to the microwelder, and 6 feet of 1/4 I'd to the Everlast....all downstream of the flowmeter. Not good.

In addition I found that even using the pedal, the downslope knob has an effect. Also not good! I have to remember to set it to zero.

nelson wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:34 pm HI folks.
I have the welder listed below. It came with a flowmeter. I was wondering if the pressure is too high though.
When I start a weld there's a big gush. I don't know if it's adjustable. I could put a regulator ahead of the flowmeter I guess. I don't know if this affects my Al but my steel looks fine.
I use the same tank for a microwelder. Big gush thru a little nozzle.

I got the same problem. Huge rush of gas when you press the trigger. You're wasting gas, but not only that the rush of gas actually blows the damn arc around, causing the tungsten to burn and getting crap welds.

I found a sticker covering the head of the regulator, and found a set screw. Turning that set screw counterclockwise lowered the pressure. I'm not sure how much (there is no gauge telling you this) but my welder's manufacturer (Andeli) recommends setting the pressure to about 2 bars or so, or 30 psi. This would save gas, and then to set the flow rate (if using a cup) to about 3 liters per minute. You'd use barely any gas if you do this.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:43 am

nelson wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:34 pm HI folks.
I have the welder listed below. It came with a flowmeter. I was wondering if the pressure is too high though.
When I start a weld there's a big gush. I don't know if it's adjustable. I could put a regulator ahead of the flowmeter I guess. I don't know if this affects my Al but my steel looks fine.
I use the same tank for a microwelder. Big gush thru a little nozzle.

I got the same problem. Huge rush of gas when you press the trigger. You're wasting gas, but not only that the rush of gas actually blows the damn arc around, causing the tungsten to burn and getting crap welds.

I found a sticker covering the head of the regulator, and found a set screw. Turning that set screw counterclockwise lowered the pressure. I'm not sure how much (there is no gauge telling you this) but my welder's manufacturer (Andeli) recommends setting the pressure to about 2 bars or so, or 30 psi. This would save gas, and then to set the flow rate (if using a cup) to about 3 liters per minute. You'd use barely any gas if you do this.

You can do that, but the flow meter would no longer be calibrated. In the and, that is not critical as you generally use "enough shielding", not a particular flow. It makes a difference to those following a procedure or wanting to share settings.

Jack

This entire years old thread is a solution in search of a problem. A single, moment of a rush of argon is completely inconsequential to welding. Anyone who doesn’t tap a pedal when first setting up, or checking for leaks after a tank swap is an alien. You can’t even begin to calculate the “lost cost” of argon for that momentary rush of gas.

cj737 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:42 pm This entire years old thread is a solution in search of a problem. A single, moment of a rush of argon is completely inconsequential to welding. Anyone who doesn’t tap a pedal when first setting up, or checking for leaks after a tank swap is an alien. You can’t even begin to calculate the “lost cost” of argon for that momentary rush of gas.

It matters to some, for example if there are several welders doing spot welding. The surge happens at every trigger pull, not just at setup.

It is quite easy to calculate the loss of gas and it can approach the gas used during preflow so you get double preflow gas dumped every trigger pull. I am happy you and I are unaffected, but others are and calling them aliens doesn't make it less so.

Jack

cj737 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:42 pm This entire years old thread is a solution in search of a problem. A single, moment of a rush of argon is completely inconsequential to welding. Anyone who doesn’t tap a pedal when first setting up, or checking for leaks after a tank swap is an alien. You can’t even begin to calculate the “lost cost” of argon for that momentary rush of gas.

for me gas is expensive. so i usually try anything but its never really bothered me. i doubt its much usage. someone did work it out and i believe its sweet stuff all for general welding.
if i remember right there is special regulators (2stage?) to stop that gush of argon. but you might be spending more on parts that what you save.
with tack welding, the after flow will matter more. so i try to do the tacks fairly quickly so you do the next tack before the gas even stops.

i think the original question was with a possibly faulty regulator (or cheap one) that was set to high to start with.
one problem with lowering the pressure of the regulator, the flow meter will be inaccurate. might pay to use a torch end flow meter to set it.
also don't lower it so much you run into coverage problems. cheap regulators can have quite a lot of difference between set pressure and run pressure.

I had a problem with the big gush of argon. Not only am I wasting gas that gush actually causes turbulence which isn't good.

I found a way to adjust my regulator. It's normally taped with a label but once undone there's a set screw that adjusts the output pressure.

My welder manufacturer actually recommends 15 psi for gas. It saves gas and eliminates turbulence.

Or a limiter in line works too, but personally I think 70 psi is too high.