Tack with TIG without Argon

zamanali · Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:13 pm

Hi
Just a quick question, I wonder would it be even slightly possible that i tack weld some thin stainless steel with TIG WITHOUT argon gas?
Thanks in advance for any advice

AndersK · Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:07 pm

Hi and welcome.

You can but it will be weak, ugly and you will have tungsten spatter burned in.

zamanali · Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:01 pm

Thanks much for the prompt reply.

Would it be possible to request Jody or his team to make a short video doing it with Argon and without Argon to compare the difference?

It would be really educational/experimental for newbie to see the result of how much effect can Argon make even for just a fraction of a second in TIG welding.

Sometime the question comes in mind that how fast can argon flow to the weld area in just that fraction second when the switch is pressed on the TIG torch; maybe the argon couldn't even reach the weld area and the switch is pulled back during the tack.

Farmwelding · Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:38 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZsbSRdz55g

That video is without the wrong gas. The results would be similar I would assume.

AndersK · Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:47 pm

zamanali wrote: Sometime the question comes in mind that how fast can argon flow to the weld area in just that fraction second

Thats why there is pre-flow. The gas will flow for a certain time (adjustable time on most machines) before the arc ignites to protect the tungsten.

Poland308 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:43 pm

Welding without gas is why we have stick welding! Let us know what kind of machine you have because most tig machines are capable of stick.

Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:04 am

Without gas the tungsten turns into a sparkler, burns and disintegrates in no time flat. There is no possibility of welding anything. Except maybe the electrode to the inside of your torch.

zamanali · Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:12 am

Glad to receive good advices.

Please correct me if I am wrong, in other words, the argon gas not only serves to shield the weld puddle, but also it serves to protect the tungsten?
Then wouldn't it make the pre-flow a MUST for all welders?
I am worried for the model i have, not sure if it has pre-flow?
btw, are their any specification about the different tungstens for their time tolerance without argon before it burns out?

LtBadd · Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:59 am

zamanali wrote:Glad to receive good advices.

Please correct me if I am wrong, in other words, the argon gas not only serves to shield the weld puddle, but also it serves to protect the tungsten?
Then wouldn't it make the pre-flow a MUST for all welders?
I am worried for the model i have, not sure if it has pre-flow?
btw, are their any specification about the different tungstens for their time tolerance without argon before it burns out?

TIG welding has been around for many years before the added function of pre-flow, if your worried just tap on the pedal to start the flow then position the torch and begin welding.

There are no such specifications that I have ever seen

cj737 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:34 am

TIG without gas will burn up the tungsten immediately. Pre-flow is not required. Shielding and tungsten cooling is purpose of the gas.

Lightning · Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:05 am

Why would you want to do this? It just seems like an odd question, like "Can I run my car engine without oil, just to run to the store?"

zamanali · Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am

I watched the Jody video regarding speed tacking with a blast of amps for thin metals, and was curios about how much argon gas is really working and affecting during that fraction of a second.

Originally the question without Argon gas was only for "Tacking" and not for a complete continuous weld.

I do understand welding with TIG without argon gas is a No-No, but that "speed tacking" by Jody is not in any welding Textbook but working marvelously.

It made me wonder during that "speed tack", does it provide enough time for things to get messed up real bad? or will it be just fine? or maybe it could be some sort of acceptable? those are still untested and unseen ?

MinnesotaDave · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:41 pm

zamanali wrote:I watched the Jody video regarding speed tacking with a blast of amps for thin metals, and was curios about how much argon gas is really working and affecting during that fraction of a second.

Originally the question without Argon gas was only for "Tacking" and not for a complete continuous weld.

I do understand welding with TIG without argon gas is a No-No, but that "speed tacking" by Jody is not in any welding Textbook but working marvelously.

It made me wonder during that "speed tack", does it provide enough time for things to get messed up real bad? or will it be just fine? or maybe it could be some sort of acceptable? those are still untested and unseen ?

Go ahead and see if everyone is somehow wrong and that tacking is just fine as long as it's quick.

I seriously doubt you will like the outcome, but from what I've read it seems you keep asking the same question - fire it up and try it and let us know - lol

Btw, speed tacking is not against textbooks. It's just tacking with more amps in less time - some very small parts are actually spot welded this way.

zamanali · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:54 pm

here, i couldn't test it myself for some reason
i was hoping to see if anyone tested it out before, at least i learnt from others experience, if not from the exact test
about the spot weld you mentioned, i suppose those are without any shielding gas, isn't it ?

Poland308 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:36 pm

Most spot welds are done with copper contacts that have to be replaced often due to the pitting from the process. That’s like comparing apples and oranges.

Farmwelding · Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:43 pm

zamanali wrote:I watched the Jody video regarding speed tacking with a blast of amps for thin metals, and was curios about how much argon gas is really working and affecting during that fraction of a second.

Originally the question without Argon gas was only for "Tacking" and not for a complete continuous weld.

I do understand welding with TIG without argon gas is a No-No, but that "speed tacking" by Jody is not in any welding Textbook but working marvelously.

It made me wonder during that "speed tack", does it provide enough time for things to get messed up real bad? or will it be just fine? or maybe it could be some sort of acceptable? those are still untested and unseen ?

The effect of gas is immediate. Running anything without gas that should have gas causes immediate porosity. A fraction of pre-flow/post flow secures the tack from outside contaminants in the air.

Lightning · Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:39 pm

When you TIG weld, in addition to providing a shield of inert gas, the argon or helium ionizes into plasma, providing a conductive path for the current to flow from the tungsten to the work.

Air ... not so much. Plus there's all that oxygen (21%), just itching to react and combine with molten metals! BOOM

Hint: Without INERT GAS, you don't have Tungsten INERT GAS (TIG) welding.

cj737 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:42 pm

...and if you watch, when Jody (or anyone competent) who does speed tack, hovers momentarily over the tack to allow the shielding gas to cool the tack and tungsten. Most machines have some amount of post flow or user set post flow to cool the tungsten and protect the weld.

MinnesotaDave · Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Poland308 wrote:Most spot welds are done with copper contacts that have to be replaced often due to the pitting from the process. That’s like comparing apples and oranges.

I was actually only referring to the tig spot weld. Basically just speed tacks and sometimes done with a spot timer for consistency.

Poland308 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:06 pm

Well there’s that too.