Louie1961 wrote:I sure would love to see some pics off those welds made with 3/32 rod that passed race specs.
Yiu might spend a bit time of watching this, and checking out some of Tim’s videos. You might be exposed to some things you had not previously heard, learned, or considered. https://youtu.be/sh20QmIs-OE
There often really is no right or wrong answer regarding filler rod size. I've found that given any material type/thickness/shape/joint configuration, etc., experienced welders will use different rod sizes from each other, but the outcome is always the same: a satisfactory weld. Or at least that should be the outcome
There are certainly exceptions, but an experienced welder can make a rod size work that is sometimes even 2 levels off from the "ideal" size. There's so much nuance to how each person welds that a lot of it just comes down to preference.
cj737 wrote:
Yiu might spend a bit time of watching this, and checking out some of Tim’s videos. You might be exposed to some things you had not previously heard, learned, or considered. https://youtu.be/sh20QmIs-OE
Thanks for that link; that and their web site is an information goldmine.
I'd love to hear a definition of full penetration on tubing. Are we walking about penetrating through the backside of both tubes, or just the coped tube?
Louie1961 wrote:I sure would love to see some pics off those welds made with 3/32 rod that passed race specs.
Yiu might spend a bit time of watching this, and checking out some of Tim’s videos. You might be exposed to some things you had not previously heard, learned, or considered. https://youtu.be/sh20QmIs-OE
Tim said the only time they use 3/32 is when they have crappy fit ups with gaps otherwise they always use 1/16th rod on all their chassis work. So it sounds to me like he agrees completely with Jody. Your exact comment that I take issue with was
1/16 wire for 0.083 is not the right wire to be “technically correct” where a roll cage is concerned.
There is just no factual basis for you to say that and in fact it is the exact wrong thing to say according to Tim and the video you posted. The way you spout this crap and then insult anyone who disagrees with you makes me wonder. Do you actually do any welding yourself?
Their go-to is 1/16 because they have decent fit-ups. He also recommends 3/32 for both poor fit-ups AND to have enough wire to avoid concave welds.
Now if you actually thought about the whole thing (like Spartan pointed out) in order to introduce enough filler into a weld where the tube is 0.083 and the wire is 0.045 ( your original assertion, or even 1/16) you have to stuff a great deal more filler than is the standard practice.that’s because, the length of wire you ad is normally equal to the diameter. So, use 0.045 against 0.083 and you’re stuffing 2x as much wire in to get full penetration. With 0.063, it’s 1.5x roughly. And that’s just to get equal to the tube diameter, no fillet.
Can it be welded with 0.45, sure, you’ll use 3x as many filler wires. Or you won’t have a full penetration weld (Like the OP pictures show) or you will probably have undercut (also present in the OP pictures). But to get full pen, AND have a convex weld, you’ll need either 2 passes with 0.45/0.063 or a SINGLE pass with the heat turned up (just like Tim said) and do it with a 3/32.
Even using 0.063, they are stuffing enough wire in to get full penetration because they are welding based upon tube thickness, not wire diameter. So to cool a puddle that is 100 amps with 0.063 wire, how much do you need to stuff? A lot more than 3/32.
Yes, I do weld. More importantly I still continue to study the trade and have not become a Luddite or acolyte to a single approach.
Your responses get more and more amusing. And you are using bigger words to try and insult me. I love it. I have posted plenty of pictures of my work on this board and others. My level of experience and skill is far from perfect, I am actually an accountant by trade who welds as a hobby, but evidence of my work is out there for anyone to judge. In fact, Jody actually did a video using a question I sent him as well as pictures of my weld coupons, back when my only welder was a Hobart Stickmate. Why is it that we don't see any pictures of your welding? Talk is cheap Oh Swami of welding. Let's SEE what kind of chops you actually have that back up your advice.
Interesting. How did you find it to weld with? I would encourage you to increase your amps though. The heavier wire will chill your puddle more than 1/16 does, so you do need to offset that with more amps.
I don’t know if the welds I do warrant “publicity” or bragging, but yes, I can and do weld. Here’s some examples just for you, Louie so there’s never any further doubt in your mind that I own, operate and produce TIG welds.
.125 5052 welded with3/32 5356
F9C9A7C0-20DB-4303-947E-7AE115629655.jpeg (53.63 KiB) Viewed 4791 times
0.063 tubing welded a solid 1” bung with 3/32 ER70-S2
319D2EF7-3DD5-4C89-BF89-DAFD2CB224B5.jpeg (132.8 KiB) Viewed 4791 times
0.035 316 tubing fusion welded (back purged) for a CAT delete for my son’s Triumph
BB9DB749-8CA8-4610-9997-2B1F32B53B26.jpeg (38.12 KiB) Viewed 4791 times
2”x2”x3/16” tubing with a 3/16 flat stock fusion welded with pulse
0E8032D9-01A0-46C6-96EF-4F0DE596B090.jpeg (42.57 KiB) Viewed 4791 times
1” plate welded to 1/2” flat stock with 1/8” ER70-S2
EB34EFDD-512F-4A57-A5D0-7225B7423FAA.jpeg (71.33 KiB) Viewed 4791 times
Hope these qualify me in your eyes to post in a public forum?
I was able to get enough filler in my puddle for it to be convex without having to be staying in the same spot too long. I'm going to try and break it shortly.
Lincoln mig 210
Lincoln tig 200 everlast cooler
Miller plasma cutter
Breaking some test welds is always a good idea. Convex or concave. Hmm. I can make either profile but you can have a over sized fillet weld that doesn’t have good penetration. There is a level of experience you will get from destructive testing that can’t be duplicated unless you get to a point your examining real world failures.
Looks like you're progressing right a long. Tubing is always tough especially if it's the first time or been a long time. If you can complete demolish the practice parts before the weld start to let go, then you will know if it has been done right.
I missed those pics. Looks like good penetration. Practice will clean up those holes and divots from not tapering off amps at the end or pulling out too fast. Those holes are weak points, focus points for stress. Not deal breakers just likely point for cracks to start. As noted back purge isn’t required for this application but it’s undeniable that it will result in better quality welds in both appearance and in strength.
Mattman06 wrote:I think I need to make one out of longer pipes so I can really lock it down good in the vise and beat it until it tears at the haz. Hopefully
The welds in the very first pic you posted would have the same results as the welds in the last pic you posted
A lot of good discussion here. And that's what it was...discussion...and some semantics.
VA-Sawyer wrote:Just let a 6 year old kid have it for a day. If it comes back in one piece, your welds are good.
That may greatly depend on the kid. Some of the kids I know wouldn’t bring it back at all. Instead you’d have to go get it from next to the X box where they spent all their time since you gave it to them.
