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Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:58 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi Everyone,

I've been doing some 1/16" and 1/8" stainless Tig welding. I'm sure I'm making the fit-up harder than it needs to be. Part of it is my eyesight and coordination.

With steel I use magnets.

The main use would be 90 degree corners like setting up cubes for outside corner welds.

I would appreciate any advice.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:08 pm
by BillE.Dee
Do you have a fixture table? OR you can make some jigs to make your corners

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:40 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi BiilE.Dee,

Thanks for replying.

I do have a fixture table.

I've also been using a heavy gauge steel angle iron as more of a guide than a fixture to get reasonably close to a 90 degree joint. I just haven't clamped the stainless to the angle. I was thinking that I might be making it more difficult than I needed to for something pretty simple.

I really miss the days of having uncorrected vision.

Thanks again.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:19 pm
by tweake
ideally, some aluminum square stock that you can clamp into place.
otherwise just using weights to push it into place, tack, push the next bit together and tack.
but being fussy on fit up makes for much much easier welding.

speaking of vision, i've just come in from doing a small stainless repair for work (sorry no pics) and i nearly stuffed it because of vision. my new glasses is screwing my close range vision. i actually did better with glasses off.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:43 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi tweake,

Thanks.

Yeah... the fit on the 1/16" is difficult to get as close as I would like. I know that the better the fit-up the easier it is to do a decent job with consistent beads.

I sure relate on the glasses. I have tried different glasses and different cheaters. I need to accept the fact that I'll never see as well as I would like.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:33 am
by Arno
Jeff2016 wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:43 pm I sure relate on the glasses. I have tried different glasses and different cheaters. I need to accept the fact that I'll never see as well as I would like.
One component of getting older is also that your eyes need much more light to work well compared to when you're younger.

Strong lighting focused on your work area and something to cover the back of your welding helmet to stop 'backlight' giving you reflections inside your helmet can assist, especially when wearing glasses. Should help your eyes focus on the work piece.

Next to this, investing in a newer helmet with one of the 'clear' visor types is also useful, but usually more costly.

Still.. Need all the help you can get over 50.. I know... :lol:

Bye, Arno.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:18 am
by BillE.Dee
50???? I can only wish I was back there again. I had a crash that damaged my dominant eye REAL BAD. Since that I have one "cat" eye that's always wide open and the other eye can't see without glasses and then I can't find the script when I'm working. I'm having problems trying to figure out if I have a good weave going or my head is moving around lookin for the script to see. I have discovered that more light is more gooder.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:01 pm
by cj737
Back to the question about fit up-

For thin stainless, I use aluminum angle bars. I clamp the stainless sheets to those either as inside or outside corners. I prefer the aluminum as it does not contaminate the stainless, won’t accidentally weld to the stainless, and provides a minor heat sink to boot.

For more elaborate projects, I’ve made some ally purge/clamp blocks for doing stainless countertops. They’ve worked exceptionally well and took little time and used scrap material.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:06 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi Cj,

Good ideas. Thank you.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:32 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi Again,

I'm not sure if it's good practice; but, I have just started tacking panels together while they are flat and then bending them to 90 degrees before tacking them closed. It seems to work pretty well.

I'm not sure that it would work with stainless, though.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:54 pm
by cj737
Jeff2016 wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:32 pm Hi Again,

I'm not sure if it's good practice; but, I have just started tacking panels together while they are flat and then bending them to 90 degrees before tacking them closed. It seems to work pretty well.

I'm not sure that it would work with stainless, though.

Jeff
It’s been my experience that stainless tacks don’t take much bending before they break. If you have a gap, you might get enough ductility in the tack to bend it over, but not confident about that. Plus with thin material, you can put a kink in it pretty easily shoving it around with sides or ends tacked up.

Tough material to work with, but looks great as a final product.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:15 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi CJ,

Thanks for your input. I haven't tried to do it with stainless. What you said makes sense.

I'll do the clamping with the stainless.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 10:48 am
by Jeff2016
Hi Arno,
Arno wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:33 am
Jeff2016 wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:43 pm I sure relate on the glasses. I have tried different glasses and different cheaters. I need to accept the fact that I'll never see as well as I would like.
One component of getting older is also that your eyes need much more light to work well compared to when you're younger.

Strong lighting focused on your work area and something to cover the back of your welding helmet to stop 'backlight' giving you reflections inside your helmet can assist, especially when wearing glasses. Should help your eyes focus on the work piece.

Next to this, investing in a newer helmet with one of the 'clear' visor types is also useful, but usually more costly.

Still.. Need all the help you can get over 50.. I know... :lol:

Bye, Arno.
Thanks for your input.

I have been using a pretty good helmet, and the lighting above and in front of my table is pretty bright. I don't think I have much light from the back, but, I might try covering the back just to see if there's any benefit.

Take Care,

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:00 am
by Jeff2016
Hi Everyone,

My wife bought me a small stainless steel soccer ball welding kit for Valentine's Day. It's going to be a bit more of a setup challenge than stuff with mild steel and right angles. I might need to wait on this one for a while. Lol

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 9:03 pm
by cj737
Big cup, lots or argon, short welds, lots of post flow. Easy peasy. :D

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:52 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi CJ
cj737 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 9:03 pm Big cup, lots or argon, short welds, lots of post flow. Easy peasy. :D
I'm trying to visualize how to keep the angle on the sides keeping in mind the stainless being less forgiving of bending after tacking than mild steel.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:35 pm
by cj737
You need to hold three pieces that intersect together and tack them up. Then another three. Two sides of one piece aligning one side of one piece that its end aligns to the third piece. (I know, that sounds complicated but if you grab some pieces and imagine putting them together it will make sense.)

Just take your time and arrange the pieces, tacking up sections, then tacking smaller sections to bigger ones.once it’s all tacked up, weld out a whole piece, all three sides. Then tie in and do the adjacent piece. Don’t skip around. The tacks will hold.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:08 pm
by Jeff2016
Hi CJ,
cj737 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:35 pm You need to hold three pieces that intersect together and tack them up. Then another three. Two sides of one piece aligning one side of one piece that its end aligns to the third piece. (I know, that sounds complicated but if you grab some pieces and imagine putting them together it will make sense.)

Just take your time and arrange the pieces, tacking up sections, then tacking smaller sections to bigger ones.once it’s all tacked up, weld out a whole piece, all three sides. Then tie in and do the adjacent piece. Don’t skip around. The tacks will hold.
Thank you... it makes good sense. So that I don't bugger the ball up starting out I'll do some more practicing (including tacking) on some simpler shapes.

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:54 pm
by Jeff2016
Hey Everyone,

This question is somewhat related to the original fit-up question I asked.

I've purchased several 16 ga stainless dice/cube coupon kits from Amazon. The way they are pre-cut, some of the cubes are assembled by tacking individual pieces together. Others are fit together by bending the sides into a cube and tacking.

With the individual pieces it's pretty easy to get a good tight fit at all edges.

With the ones that are bent into shape there are some pretty decent size gaps (some probably a little wider than 1/16").

With the mild steel kits it wasn't too difficult to fill the gap with 3/32" filler, although I'm sure I was overheating the base metal a little.

The 16 ga stainless is more of a challenge. I'm running 56 A, no. 12 cup, gas lense, 25 cfh Ar, about 1/2" stickout, and 1/16" SS filler.

I try to bridge the gap to start, but, it seems like half the time I chase the arc up to one edge or the other and leave a bead on that edge and a gap in between the two edges. It looks pretty ugly.

The cubes with the tight fit are looking okay, although I still need more practice.

I can cut the pieces apart and tack like with the individual pieces (or work on them with a hammer). I'm trying to get better at edge welding when fit-up isn't so good. With the stainless I'm really trying to keep from overcooking the base metal. Anyone have advice on what I might do different to work with filling the gap without overheating?

Thanks,

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:36 pm
by cj737
Is there any means of using an aluminum backer piece? That will not weld to your stainless and can serve as a support for the bridging tack.

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:37 am
by Jeff2016
Hi CJ,

There's not really a way to use a backing plate to weld the whole cube when it is bent into shape.

I will take a pic or two later and post here so that it makes more sense.

Thanks,

Jeff

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:47 am
by cj737
Jeff2016 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:37 am Hi CJ,

There's not really a way to use a backing plate to weld the whole cube when it is bent into shape.

I will take a pic or two later and post here so that it makes more sense.

Thanks,

Jeff
I can certainly understand if you're welding outside corners of a cube. In that case, larger diameter filler or clamping it closed to tack is probably the better option. Short of that, cutting it apart would seem the only viable choice. Those kits that have pre-bent sides and some open joints never have the correct length. So you always end up with a large gap on at least one edge :evil:

Re: Holding Stainless Steel for Fit-Up

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:52 pm
by Jeff2016
Thanks CJ,

This pic shows the gap. Even with the way the kit is made I could have take more time and at least made the gap more uniform.

16 Ga SS Not Okay 20240328_101744 1920 x 1080 res.jpg
16 Ga SS Not Okay 20240328_101744 1920 x 1080 res.jpg (122.39 KiB) Viewed 3767 times

And this is a pic of 16 ga with a tight fit on the corner before welding.

16 Ga SS Okay 20240328_101913 1920 x 1080 res.jpg
16 Ga SS Okay 20240328_101913 1920 x 1080 res.jpg (143.08 KiB) Viewed 3767 times

Even with the tight fit I know I have a long way to go to keep the heat down and be more consistent with the beads. It's a work in progress.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff