Tig welding tips, questions, equipment, applications, instructions, techniques, tig welding machines, troubleshooting tig welding process
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

Many thanks. If I sort it out such that it would be of interest to anyone else, I'll post back.

Thanks again for your kind help and advice.

Martin
chriso
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:08 pm
  • Location:
    England

martinr wrote:Many thanks. If I sort it out such that it would be of interest to anyone else, I'll post back.

Thanks again for your kind help and advice.

Martin
I think you are probably sorted but I got my tig torch switches from Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... h%20swirch

I mounted mine with cable ties so I can slide the switch around the torch.
Tjschur
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:14 am
  • Location:
    Fairfield, CT.

All those mementary switches you guys list sure are bulkey to say the least, and the button is really not where I would want it. I am making a momentary torch control using a very small button that are used on circut boards I got from my Father in law who is an EE. I am going to make some sort of mold for the button and the wire lead and "pot" the whole thing. Then use Mcmaster verlcro cable ties. So far I have $30.00 US into this. I had to buy a 14 pin amphol connector. I had some 18/3 shielded hanging around. I will start a new post when I am done and post pics. I have a Dynasty 300DX. Again, I am talking momentary and not and amp control set up. Talk about really bulky, like a farm tractor wheel on top of the torch.
Last edited by Tjschur on Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

chriso wrote:
martinr wrote:Many thanks. If I sort it out such that it would be of interest to anyone else, I'll post back.

Thanks again for your kind help and advice.

Martin
I think you are probably sorted but I got my tig torch switches from Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... h%20swirch

I mounted mine with cable ties so I can slide the switch around the torch.

Thanks but those flat-bottomed ones are too bulky for my slim-handled torch. In fact, I find them uncomfortably bulky even on the WP26 style torch, which, to me feels like trying to weld with a hammer. That's why I like the style at https://db.tt/cIRGAiW6 . Whilst I'd still need to use cable ties or Velcro, these ties would be loose enough to allow easy rotation and fore-and-aft adjustment, whereas even if the flat-bottomed ones were slimmer, they'd still need to be lashed tight enough to prevent twisting, which could inhibit adjustment for comfort, hand swapping etc. Makes you wonder if some of these torch designers have ever had a go at TIG welding.

Martin
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

I decided have a go and fit a microswitch to my spring-loaded cover. Results in the 4 photos. I set the switch into a couple of tiny balls of epoxy putty and allowed it to harden before progressing, the reason being that without a bed of moulded epoxy, when I tightened down the 2 white cable ties, there would be a bending moment on the 2 halves of the microswitch because of the central aluminium band.



Image

Image

Image

Image


I got the switch at a local shop but I'm confident the switch is this one: http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/black-push-to ... itch-nd91y

Martin
noddybrian
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 pm

Glad to see you got it sorted Martin - have used that switch before - though it's not a true "mico switch" in the sense I'm familiar with - but so long as it works that's all that matters - there is at least one torch switch on Ebay from a low cost supplier that looks identical to yours if that does'nt work long term.
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

noddybrian wrote:Glad to see you got it sorted Martin - have used that switch before - though it's not a true "mico switch" in the sense I'm familiar with - but so long as it works that's all that matters - there is at least one torch switch on Ebay from a low cost supplier that looks identical to yours if that does'nt work long term.

Many thanks and thanks also for your guidance and advice.

By the way, the switch cover you've seen on Ebay, does it contain a switch? If so, could you send me a link, please; all the ones I've seen (identical to mine) don't have the switch, which seems a bit odd and was the reason I've had all this faffing around. Still, it's good to have a challenge and a reason to converse with helpful, like-minded people on this forum. And thanks, too, for putting me right on the term 'microswitch'.

Martin
noddybrian
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 pm

Well now I read the item properly I think your right - it has no supplied switch which is really odd ! - what I believe is the correct style switch - though you would need to check the size as there are several that look the same is

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/low-cost-mini ... ever-gw69a

If you look at the flat style switch from shop river - item

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TORCH-SWITCH- ... 19c825f9ab

you can see it quite clearly ( same switch is also in most Binzel style mig torches ) the difference is you have a simple "push to make " switch & it won't switch "cleanly" depending on the speed & pressure applied to it whereas the micro switch does no matter how hard / fast you operate it as the switching action comes from a sprung action going " over center " inside.

the switch you have may well perform adequately for you & is cheap to change if need be - but the "micro switch " style is the best solution - either way you got it done & shared with others your solution who may have had a similar problem so everyone wins.
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

noddybrian wrote:Well now I read the item properly I think your right - it has no supplied switch which is really odd ! - what I believe is the correct style switch - though you would need to check the size as there are several that look the same is

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/low-cost-mini ... ever-gw69a

If you look at the flat style switch from shop river - item

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TORCH-SWITCH- ... 19c825f9ab

you can see it quite clearly ( same switch is also in most Binzel style mig torches ) the difference is you have a simple "push to make " switch & it won't switch "cleanly" depending on the speed & pressure applied to it whereas the micro switch does no matter how hard / fast you operate it as the switching action comes from a sprung action going " over center " inside.

the switch you have may well perform adequately for you & is cheap to change if need be - but the "micro switch " style is the best solution - either way you got it done & shared with others your solution who may have had a similar problem so everyone wins.


I hadn't given any conscious thought to clean switching, though I ran very rough-and-ready continuity checks when slowly pressing the lever down. For a proper test I'd need to monitor the trace of the voltage across the contacts with my oscilloscope when connected to the machine. Nevertheless, there is no over-centre 'click' with the switch I have. Anyway, I have two of those MIG type switches on order and will swap the microswitch into my switch cover provided it isn't too wide.

Many thanks for bringing that important factor to my attention.

Martin
noddybrian
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 pm

No problem Martin - glad to help where I can or have experience - I think that is likely the micro switch you want but only you have the dimensions of the plastic cover - there are smaller versions than that - all the usual guys list them - Maplin / RS components / Farnel - the quality of switching may not effect that machine or how you use it - but if you have 4T selected & get "switch bounce" it's going to confuse you as well as the Tig set ! Good luck with your future projects.
chriso
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:08 pm
  • Location:
    England

From memory they (I think) are V4 size switches.

Here's the data sheet.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1564547.pdf
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

chriso wrote:From memory they (I think) are V4 size switches.

Here's the data sheet.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1564547.pdf

Thank you! A different quality league to the switch I used. 50,000 operations min. life! That's a good few miles of TIG bead! Excellent stuff; dimensions as well. This is definitely the product I should be using.

Many thanks. I am most grateful for the first-class advice and patient guidance I've had from everyone.

Martin
chriso
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:08 pm
  • Location:
    England

martinr wrote:
chriso wrote:From memory they (I think) are V4 size switches.

Here's the data sheet.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1564547.pdf

Thank you! A different quality league to the switch I used. 50,000 operations min. life! That's a good few miles of TIG bead! Excellent stuff; dimensions as well. This is definitely the product I should be using.

Many thanks. I am most grateful for the first-class advice and patient guidance I've had from everyone.

Martin
if they are V4 set up an account at CPC and get them post free for around 50p

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/brows ... sults=true


CPC is the consumer division of Farnell and much cheaper.
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

chriso wrote:
martinr wrote:
chriso wrote:From memory they (I think) are V4 size switches.

Here's the data sheet.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1564547.pdf

Thank you! A different quality league to the switch I used. 50,000 operations min. life! That's a good few miles of TIG bead! Excellent stuff; dimensions as well. This is definitely the product I should be using.

Many thanks. I am most grateful for the first-class advice and patient guidance I've had from everyone.

Martin
if they are V4 set up an account at CPC and get them post free for around 50p

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/brows ... sults=true


CPC is the consumer division of Farnell and much cheaper.

I went to the Farnell site yesterday and didn't get very far, but the CPC site link you sent was perfect. I've ordered 3 different models to make sure I end up with a perfect solution. I'd never heard of CPC so I'm extremely grateful for the pointer to such high-quality and suitable switches. I'll post back once it's done.

I really appreciate your kind help.

Martin
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

I bought a couple of microswitches from CPC and this one fitted perfectly.

Image

I used two 2.5mm nylon plastic nuts and bolts to hold the switch in place (and melted the end of the screw to the nut to lock).

Image

The result: perfection, with that reassuring over-centre click to the switch.

Image

In case anyone's wondering, the Chinese symbols say, "May your tig beads look like a stack of dimes". Or maybe not.


Sincere thanks for all the help and especially for educating me on the different types of switches - a really shameful lack of knowledge on my part.

Martin
TamJeff
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:46 am

I use torch mount momentary switches exclusively. Most people that try my rig, even those who are dedicated foot pedal users are surprised at the immediate freedom of movement when building large constructs consisting of many parts, or when free building where jigging isn't practical.

I used to use switches similar to these, masking taped right to the side of the torch without issue. What's great about these types is that they're a hair trigger, so you don't have to press hard on it, which is important if you have to pulse with it. Currently, I have a switch supplied by Miller that I have had on my torch for 12 years.
Image

Been welding like this well over 20 years. Had a forum member stop by the shop and he tried it and welded a decent pass on anodized his first try. Regular masking tape will not melt and leave goo on your parts when getting into tight spots. This is the miller switch.
Image

For tacking a lot of parts, the setup can't be beat IMO. Can you imagine having to drag a pedal around all of this? I work at a piecework pace. I cannot be caught shuffling around. If you ever heard one of these projects going together at the fitup stage, the difference in tack speed compared to pedaling is quite obvious. 250 amps AC, triple stacked tacks at each point will not crack.
Image
Miller ABP 330, Syncrowave 250, Dynasty 300 DX.
Honorary member of the Fraternity of Faded Tee Shirts.
martinr
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm
  • Location:
    Manchester, UK

TamJeff wrote:I use torch mount momentary switches exclusively. Most people that try my rig, even those who are dedicated foot pedal users are surprised at the immediate freedom of movement when building large constructs consisting of many parts, or when free building where jigging isn't practical.

I used to use switches similar to these, masking taped right to the side of the torch without issue. What's great about these types is that they're a hair trigger, so you don't have to press hard on it, which is important if you have to pulse with it. Currently, I have a switch supplied by Miller that I have had on my torch for 12 years.
Image

Been welding like this well over 20 years. Had a forum member stop by the shop and he tried it and welded a decent pass on anodized his first try. Regular masking tape will not melt and leave goo on your parts when getting into tight spots. This is the miller switch.
Image

For tacking a lot of parts, the setup can't be beat IMO. Can you imagine having to drag a pedal around all of this? I work at a piecework pace. I cannot be caught shuffling around. If you ever heard one of these projects going together at the fitup stage, the difference in tack speed compared to pedaling is quite obvious. 250 amps AC, triple stacked tacks at each point will not crack.
Image

Who would have thought that something seemingly as trivial as the torch switch could generate such interest and different ideas? I guess it all comes down to the different ways people have for "getting comfortable". I love the way it all makes one consider and try alternative and often better ways of doing things.

Martin
450dualsport
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:46 am

martinr wrote:Who would have thought that something seemingly as trivial as the torch switch could generate such interest and different ideas? I guess it all comes down to the different ways people have for "getting comfortable". I love the way it all makes one consider and try alternative and often better ways of doing things.
Martin
I am starting to think that the basic torch switch is the way to go. It seems like there would be less torch movement trying to operate it. Also, there are a lot of settings in the 4T mode that you can take advantage of.
noddybrian
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 pm

On older style machines the foot pedal made sense - especially if most of your work could be done seated at a bench - but the torch switch really can be your friend with newer machines - if sensible parameters are set for 4T or even just using slope up / down - it frees you from having to use the pedal - helps with difficult positions / large structures & if your learning it eliminates a variable that contributes to poor results & reduces the learning curve with coordinating 3 limbs - both torch switch & pedal have their place - but as I mentioned previously I think it is an advantage to learn without the pedal.
TamJeff
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:46 am

When I started where I am at now 15 years ago, these guys were having one guy work the pedal and the other guy verbally controlling it. Where I came from, I was fitting and welding 2 or 3 of these projects per week by myself. Always working full out in adrenaline mode. The other welder suffered through that pedal for 6 months after I started. He was going to prove it all wrong. Meanwhile, he got his lunch et every day until he finally submitted.

The on/off switch is the wrong way to weld aluminum. You have to break all of the rules to use it effectively. More often than not, the welds will not technically pass critical tests. The nature of this beast tho is, that everything is overbuilt and much of the welding ends up being redundant beyond weatherproofing or aesthetic considerations. It just so happens that there is typically enough mass to absorb the brunt of such carelessness with regard to temperature control. Also, the marine environment is going to play hell on the welds a lot more than a porosity or contaminant inclusion will.

There is barely room where I work much of the time for my feet, let alone a foot pedal. To switch processes back and forth ends up being counterproductive. After awhile, you just won't bother anyway. We've tried using both, even when we had guys that did nothing but weld up what we had built. WHen we would fall in and tag team on projects, they would notice we were repositioning less and would end up adopting the switch method.

Image

That video that Jody did with the switch/manual pulse and the joint he had set up is where he would have been in this boat with that procedure. He would have cruised through it without much fuss and likely gladly so.
Miller ABP 330, Syncrowave 250, Dynasty 300 DX.
Honorary member of the Fraternity of Faded Tee Shirts.
User avatar
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 pm
  • Location:
    Near New Orleans

Here's a thought... and I may try to build and test this one...

That thumb-lever hits two microswitches in progression. 1st turns the arc on at a background current (by voltage divider in the pedal circuit) at just more than the merest touch. 2nd goes to peak current by shunting the voltage divider. True manual pulse, rather than simple on/off. Perhaps even a tiny box with an adjustable pot to set the background as a percentage of max?

For where the result must meet a code?

This could be easily done...

Hmmm.

Steve S
noddybrian
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 pm

I like that idea alot - electrically it's very simple as you say ( once you measure foot pedal resistance range )- not so sure about making the torch switch enclosure to house the 2 switches without it becoming big / bulky / difficult to hold - if you have thoughts on anything that can be converted or if you do make one then I'd be very interested to see the results - I'm sure many others on the forum would as well - ( maybe you should patent & sell it ! while your at it we're still waiting for news on a " Tig glove " !
User avatar
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:22 am
  • Location:
    Germany

CK flexloc with CK switch. I like the fact that it just clips on and I can spin it around to get a comfortable position with both the torch and switch. I thought it would be too big but it was actually really easy to get used to.

Image
Nick
User avatar
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:22 am
  • Location:
    Germany

And this is what my cat thinks about the setup

Image
Nick
User avatar
  • Posts:
  • Joined:
    Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 pm
  • Location:
    Near New Orleans

Welders do get more Pu.. er...

Nevermind :roll:

LOL!

Steve S
Post Reply