[KoroKoro]

Hi guys,

So I'm looking to buy a new machine. I currently only have DC TIG and I have a few finicky aloy jobs I need to do. (repairing/custom motorcycle engine work and maybe frames/swing arms when I feel adventurous)

So originally I was looking at cheap ebay junk but I noticed there was no control for AC frequency... so naturally I am worried to weld engine blocks/frames without that kind of control... so I dug a little deeper and found a cheapy that could... but I have heard advice to steer clear of chinese junk (I have had bad experiences with other kinds of ebay junk) so I started looking at brand name machines. Being a lifetime investment, I guess it could be worth the extra dollars. But who knows how cheap they will be in the next 10 years?

So here is a list of the machines I was looking at in order.

Cheapest and probably rubbish:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nevada-WSME- ... 2b3&_uhb=1

Cheaper:
http://www.weldsmart.com.au/welding-aus ... welder-arc

Cheap:
http://weldingstore.tokentools.com.au/t ... se200.html

Middle range brand? Digital TIG
http://weldingstore.tokentools.com.au/t ... 10pro.html

Brand Name Digital TIG. 2014 model 210EXT apparently has the same technical features as the 255EXT. Apparently would cost me $2100
Power figures for 210EXT: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/produ ... ig-210-ext
Tech features for 255EXT: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/produ ... tig-255ext

So... which would you guys go for? I'm interested to know the reasons why.

Thanks.

[brokeitagain]

no offense, but you are looking to do top quality work?? why buy less than a top quality machine. you obviously have the back ground to do top quality work why ask about buying a low quality machine?

[KoroKoro]

Mainly just because I don't have much experience with any of these machines/brands in particular. So calling on people who may be happy/regretted their purchase.

Re: quality - for any of my personal projects or mates/customers, I would expect the highest standard possible and I am prepared to go the extra mile to reach it.

At the moment, I don't really intend to use it for mass production on an industrial scale. Maybe the odd very low qty production... but thats just in the near future. I'm not sure what I would do so I guess its nice to have the headroom of options... Mostly it would be used for fiddly 1 off odd jobs... and maybe the odd production run too.

My main concern is that with hindsight, it could be that the cheapest machine is more than adequate and that a higher end machine would be money pissed up against the wall, but on the other hand, I don't want to waste $700 odd on a rubbish machine that will break after 12 months of light use and produce mediocre quality at best.

So all in all, I'm just looking for experienced opinions and some thoughts behind it to help me make the right choice

[AndersK]

I will not go into the brand vs china discussuon but if your welder puts the food on your table pick one that can be repaired in your area at a shop that stock service parts

[TRACKRANGER]

Hi Koro

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the viability of the machines mentioned, BUT I certainly do commend you for undertaking the time to do the research to evaluate and invest in a system that suits your needs, both now and in the longer term.

I'm sure your game-plan is heading you in the right direction. Cheap with lots of controls might not be your best friend.

There have been good recommendations recently on this Forum for selecting a good quality second-hand machine too, so keep that in mind.

[dhc4ever]

Koro,
Where are you located?

I have a tokentools alupulse 200, I did a lot of research, hand wringing etc, calling token tools re warrenty and eventially bit the bullet and bought it.
Now Im only a hobby welder so its only had light use but it hasnt missed a beat over the last 2 years.
Would I have loved a kemmpi, miller or lincoln, you bet, could I afford 4 to 6 grand to buy one,nup.

So we have price, capability at that price point, and a reasonable warrenty and phone backup.
Over 6 years of reasearching tokentools, I havent found any bad feedback.

Well thats my sorry tale, goodluck with whatever you choose.

[KoroKoro]

AndersK: Actually, I will be made redundant in a few days lol liquidation is never fun >.< luckily though I have super cheap rent and I'm a good saver... except when I buy a new welder lol. I've always wanted to start my own engineering business though, so who knows what the future holds :p

Trackcranger: Cheers for the kudos. I will keep my eye out in the classifieds, it might give me some ideas.

dhc4ever: I'm in western sydney. I believe tokentools is up in Wyong which isn't to far from where my old man lives, so I guess thats kind of convenient. Everlast is about the same distance, so not much difference. At least its not in mainland china lol. There is no way I can afford those top end machines though, nor could I ever justify it financially. Cheers for your view on tokentools. I'm glad they don't have a tarnished reputation

[DCALLWELD]

a little off subject but where did you get your user name korokoro?
its a small island in the Fiji islands
name brand if its going to be used to put a roof over your head

[AndersK]

Actually, I will be made redundant in a few days

Sorry to hear that

But, it could be the beginning of something better. If you wanted to run your own this could be the kick-start you need.
Sydney should offer plenty of opprotunities.

[KoroKoro]

hey DC all weld: the name is a little stupid but it means *rolling-rolling* in Japanese. Its the name I use on all my other motorcycle forum accounts... and so I guess thats just how I "Roll" lol

btw. do you mean if the welder I get will be used to make the structural joints supporting the roof over my head, then yeah, thats probably a good idea but in all seriousness, are the cheapies that bad? I mean getting the sack for shit welds or just from downtime when it craps out? I'm assuming the latter.

Anders: Cheers mate to be honest, I can't wait haha

[DCALLWELD]

well that's interesting about the name and no not stupid just wondering , that's cool

HAHA if it making the roof over your head then yes lol

-- You may could be along with a cheap Jap model for a wile idk, I know it wouldn't last me long bc it may run all day for a month solid and cheep tools just wont hold up . I would look in to like Thermal Arc they make good stuff the are the thermal dynamics company. they will hold up and give you all the features of a good machine. all your adjustments to weld aluminum for around 2000 bucks.

[Otto Nobedder]

hey DC all weld: the name is a little stupid but it means *rolling-rolling* in Japanese. Its the name I use on all my other motorcycle forum accounts...

Does that make you "Ichibahn honcho" on your other accounts?

Wakarimas...

[KoroKoro]

nah just ichiban baka (No1 stupid) haha zettai wakarimasen (I have absolutely no idea) lol

DCallweld: cheers for that, I'll have a look at that brand too.

I was thinking this morning that I think another big concern I have is that the capabilities of the welder I would get would soon become a limit or obstruction as I improve as a welder. I'd like to not be able to ever blame the machine. Which I don't think would take long to improve as I'm just rusty and I need to re-forget my death-grip. Maybe a few cases of beer would be a better investment :p

[RichardH]

I've got the 210EXT (2013), and I like it a lot for features / price / size. I've done up to 3/8" steel with it, though I tripped the limit switch on it several times while doing so. It's kind of underpowered for any significant aluminum thickness, but I liked that it got me started in TIG without a big risky outlay, requiring a water cooled torch, etc.

Business-wise, I would recommend something in its class to start, with an eye to buying a bigger / more rugged machine that can be serviced locally - after you've done enough business to pay for it. I respect the philosophy of "buy big and buy it once", but that's a big leap for someone who hasn't TIG'd before.

While my 210EXT works well, reality is it can take months for a repair. On the other hand, you could buy 3-4 of them for a comparably sized red or blue machine and have plenty of spares. It depends a lot on duty cycle you will be subjecting the unit to; the big boys are often much more rugged.

My next unit will probably be another Everlast in the 320A range, and I wouldn't plan to get rid of the 210EXT when I do. The 210EXT is very nice / feature-rich; much more than a starter unit, and it'd make a respectable backup unit if/when you upgrade. Meanwhile, the cost is a much lower risk, and easy for it to pay itself off.

Cheers,
Richard

[KoroKoro]

Richard: Cheers for the info but just fyi, I already have an old 200amp DC tig... but its a bit lacking in features. I just used it a couple days ago actually. Its primitive but 100x better than my stick welder.

I guess you could say my biggest concern is that the 210ext wont cope with some of the big alloy jobs I want to do later down the track... however, I also intend to do a lot of fine work as well, so maybe I would need two machines, but if I can get away with a really crap duty cycle but get the job done, I can live with that.

For the fine stuff, I would like to start playing with thin wall titanium. Plus I would love to make some of my own magnesium castings too. My goal is to one day weld 0.7mm Ti tube. So I guess razor blade precise skill would be needed.
Something like this:









As for the heavier stuff, sometimes you can come accross heavy castings. I'm hoping I would be able to get away with out using a 300~+ amp machine

[Louie1961]

I am pretty sure most of those machines are all made in the same factory in China, so I see the them as having differences without a distinction. If you are limiting yourself to those choices, my advice is to chose based on (in my order of priority) amps, duty cycle and quality of the warranty. I have become very interested in the Everlast machines, personally.

[RichardH]

I guess you could say my biggest concern is that the 210ext wont cope with some of the big alloy jobs I want to do later down the track... however, I also intend to do a lot of fine work as well, so maybe I would need two machines, but if I can get away with a really crap duty cycle but get the job done, I can live with that.

For the fine stuff, I would like to start playing with thin wall titanium. Plus I would love to make some of my own magnesium castings too. My goal is to one day weld 0.7mm Ti tube. So I guess razor blade precise skill would be needed.

Depending how fine your work might be, consider how low a machine will go. I've done some work around 7A with mine. Some machines won't go that low, some will go lower.

My impression is that rugged / higher duty cycle = more expensive and fewer features. Of course, you can get better duty cycle by just over sizing most units.

Between the fact that a lot less heat goes into the joint with AC, plus the speed at which aluminum wicks away heat, it takes a lot bigger machine for the same hunk of aluminum vs. steel. Heavy aluminum is not the sweet spot for a 200-amp machine, but I'd wager the 210EXT would do very nicely on exhaust headers (on my bucket list, but in SS not Ti). It'll easily handle repair work on aluminum brackets and such, but a block would surely require preheating, if at all.

As for the factory, I think a lot of low-end units do come off the same assembly line, from the same base design. However, the different brands can have varying influence on details, such as grade or composition of components, feature behavior, QA testing, etc. So, I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.

I think the thing to be most cautious about if using a cheap unit to earn income is having a backup plan. Repairs are slow, even when the repair depot is domestic.

Cheers,
Richard

[wrinkleneck]

Please consider the HTP-221 Invertig from HTP America at USAWELD.COM

My HTP-221 arrives Monday...The HTP-221 replaced the old HTP-201 several years ago and you won't find the FIRST negative comment about it anywhere on the web. They produced the older 201 for over ten years and many are still being used all over the world today....And BTW, HTP products are made in Italy, no China.

I think what you will like most about the HTP-221 is it actually has every possible feature....HF start, slope up, slope down, pre gas, post gas, AC balance, high speed pulse, AC freq, starting amps, final amps...EVERYTHING is adjustable and puts you in total control where once you dial in the perfect settings, you can save it and 63 other weld settings.

Do you need to TIG a dirty alum casting, then the HTP is your choice. Do you want stick weld AC/DC with total control of AC freq, then again, the HTP is the one....Do you want to TIG any position and have full control of penetration yet a puddle that clings even overhead, the the pulse feature on the HTP will get you there instantly.

It also comes with hi quality 17 series torch, decent foot pedal and argon regulator and hose for $2495..You add add a very high quality water cooler and torch for a little more money.

Compare the HTP-221 to the Miller Dynasty 200 and you will see you get lots more welder for many less bucks and a fantastic warranty and customer service.

Good luck, and congrats no matter which you buy

[Otto Nobedder]

Please consider the HTP-221 Invertig from HTP America at USAWELD.COM

My HTP-221 arrives Monday...
...Good luck, and congrats no matter which you buy

That sounds suspiciously like an advertisement, rather than an endorsement...

I'm hoping we'll find you intend the latter, rather than the former.

Welcome aboard.

Steve S

[wrinkleneck]

LOL, yup I guess it does.

I assure you guys here I am a long time fan of Jody, and NOT a spammer or in any way associated with ANY seller of welding stuff.

I'm a 61 year old retired Navy Submarine sailor and hobby welder who this last two years really got into the craft.

I'm a former boiler inspector too where I gained GREAT respect for code welders and always envied their skills.

Now that I'm almost retired, I've chosen welding as my main hobby and I really love it.

I've shopped TIG the last two years and in doing so, I learned all the different TIG processes and what features I would want in my first TIG machine, so I pulled the trigger a few days ago with the HTP-221.

Oh, and I also paid off my house, sold my Jeep TJ, sold my Harleys, bought a Honda Ruckus scooter and swore off live in girlfriends all in preparation to retire

[Otto Nobedder]

LOL!

That's quite the resume'!

I had a feeling that was an endorsement, but since it came before your introduction, I wasn't taking odds...

I'm sure you'll have at least as much to contribute as you can learn here!

Steve S

[wrinkleneck]

You are down near New Orleans? I'm up near Alexandria, La.

Come visit anytime

[Otto Nobedder]

You are down near New Orleans? I'm up near Alexandria, La.

Come visit anytime

Thanks for the invite! You're about three hours from me, since I'm on the north shore. I do pass that way once in a while.

Steve S

[RichardH]

Hi, Wrinkleneck...

You make great (and passionate!) points, but what you describe are the benefits of the technologies, which many welders offer. Does the HTP have unique benefits, like much higher duty cycle? You've already mentioned reliability and great reputation, which are both excellent reasons for higher value.

Incidentally, the OP is in Australia, where everything is apparently much more expensive, so the prices he mentions are skewed from what we see. In the US, the HTP costs 50% more than I paid for the Everlast model we're discussing; on the surface, they sound like similarly capable machines feature-wise.

When it comes to paying more for the confidence of a better-known brand, everyone's at a different point on the spectrum of "acceptable". I'm somewhere between the upper-end of "cheap" and lower-end of "moderate" myself.

Cheers,
Richard

[wrinkleneck]

Well, no offense, but I dug really deep this last two years and discovered that both Everlast and Longivity welders are extremely over-hyped where they spend HUGE money promoting their junk Chinese welders thru questionable west coast marketers, and also flood boards like this with false reviews..Plus their warranty and customer service sux.


How do I know this?...From personal experience. I bought one of their welders last year and immediately my bank called to inform me that an hour after they debited my card for the welder, someone in India tried to debit me 1200 bucks for a meal at a restaurant, LOL.

I got their junk welder and it blew up in my face first time I struck an arc....After attempting to return it under warranty, I gave up and tossed it local landfill.

But that's just me and how it went for me.

Buy whatever you want.

Buy Chinese junk, or buy USA/European made and get stuff made to ISO standards.....Then attempt to get it fixed if it breaks