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TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

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TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby J & J Speed Shop » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:58 pm

I am looking for some pointers to improve what I have been doing. I usually weld V-band flanges to stainless steel long tube headers. The headers are 304SS and the V-band flange is also 304SS.

Here is what I am using currently
16 gauge 304 SS header
304 SS V-band flange
Miller Dynasty 200DX
Machine set to 77 AMPS max
#9 air cooled torch - gas lense - #5 cup
1/16" 2% lanthanated tungsten toa sharp point
1/16" 309L filler wire

Seems no matter what I do I warp the V-band flange slightly. The last set turned out okay but I am pretty critical of myself. The tacked the flange in approx 8 places and them welded between tacks and moved around 180 deg. from where I just welded. This is a lap joint thick to thin. The headers slides inside a milled grove in the flange.

I guess I am looking for advice on tacking and torch placement when welding. In the past I have just held the torch at a 45 angle between both and just fire up and try to melt both and add filling rod to fuse them. With tacking something like this would I be better off lighting up on the thicker flange and washing it down to the headers (thinner) while adding filler? Once the tacks are done I also find myself at more of a 45 deg angle. I am open to all suggestions to improve my product
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby weldin mike 27 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:08 am

Make a mock up v band welded to a chunk of plate then weld the pipe flange on while it's bolted to the brace v band one. Stainless bows like a bitch so don't be too hard on yourself
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby Braehill » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:16 am

J,
If I'm getting a good mental picture here, you're basiclly doing a socket weld, correct? If this is correct then I normally light up on the fitting (usually heavier) and as you said just let the pipe be washed in to the mix. You'll have to add filler to the pipe side of the puddle to keep it from undercutting and this helps keep the pipe on the cooler side of things. It also helps to have things set up so you can start welding and then get moving. Keep your heat input as low as possible by moving as fast as possible.

As a side note, whyu use a 309 rod instead of a 308/308L? The 309 is usually reserved for dis-similar metals, but will work in your case, not a terrible thing, just wondering.

Len
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby J & J Speed Shop » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:09 am

Braehill wrote:J,
If I'm getting a good mental picture here, you're basiclly doing a socket weld, correct? If this is correct then I normally light up on the fitting (usually heavier) and as you said just let the pipe be washed in to the mix. You'll have to add filler to the pipe side of the puddle to keep it from undercutting and this helps keep the pipe on the cooler side of things. It also helps to have things set up so you can start welding and then get moving. Keep your heat input as low as possible by moving as fast as possible.

As a side note, whyu use a 309 rod instead of a 308/308L? The 309 is usually reserved for dis-similar metals, but will work in your case, not a terrible thing, just wondering.

Len


Thank you both for the replies. I did use the other half of the flange and the clamp to act as a heat sink, but also welding a thicker plate or block would be great. I need to go shopping to the metal supermarket.

Len to answer you question yes it is socket weld after looking at a picture on google. So I should keep the arc on the thick flange and add the filler on the pipe side of the puddle. That is great advice and I will try that next. I see different opinions about moving around the work piece and just keep going where I stopped? I will also have to work on my speed a bit. I seem to be moving my foot around alot but I imagine if I get good you can just keep a contact amperage and use the travel speed and filler metal to control the heat/puddle. As for the 309 I know it isn't the correct filler but it is the only thing I had so I rolled with it. Does the 308 weld better?

Example of what I am doing or trying to do nicely
http://www.deedsengineering.com/2014/03/v-band/
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby Braehill » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:41 am

J,
To the question of does 308L weld better, not better just different, but I think that you'd find that it welds easier on your project because it flows a tiny bit better than 309L. Stainless is inherently sluggish and requires a little manipulation to get it to go where it needs to go as opposed to mild steel. Maybe that's because it's non-magnetic, not sure, just a guess.

Although not required, it wouldn't hurt to have a backpurge anytime you're welding stainless because cooler is better most times, and the Argon or Nitrogen backpurge helps cool the weld as well as sheilding it. Header pipes aren't critical as far as the backside sugaring, but the purge would help for cooling. You can also cool it with compressed air before moving to your next weld to limit heat input.

Using a heavy chunk of metal for a heat sink will also help. If you already have your v-band welded to a plate, weld that plate to a heavier plate, even if it's just carbon steel, your 309 will work perfectly for that.

Len
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby J & J Speed Shop » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:55 am

Braehill wrote:J,
To the question of does 308L weld better, not better just different, but I think that you'd find that it welds easier on your project because it flows a tiny bit better than 309L. Stainless is inherently sluggish and requires a little manipulation to get it to go where it needs to go as opposed to mild steel. Maybe that's because it's non-magnetic, not sure, just a guess.

Although not required, it wouldn't hurt to have a backpurge anytime you're welding stainless because cooler is better most times, and the Argon or Nitrogen backpurge helps cool the weld as well as sheilding it. Header pipes aren't critical as far as the backside sugaring, but the purge would help for cooling. You can also cool it with compressed air before moving to your next weld to limit heat input.

Using a heavy chunk of metal for a heat sink will also help. If you already have your v-band welded to a plate, weld that plate to a heavier plate, even if it's just carbon steel, your 309 will work perfectly for that.

Len


Len

I will just have to buy a few extra flanges in different sizes to make some heat sinks. I didn't back purge this but it is a good idea. I also only got 1 or 2 spots that it go hot enough on the backside to sugar and it came off easily with a flapping wheel. I was also considering welding the inner lip of the flange to the header tube and just going a fusion weld with no filler there. No sure if this is a good or bad idea?
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby Braehill » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:59 am

I would think that back welding the inside would only add to the warping problem.


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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby Oscar » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:02 pm

I would ditch the 1/16" filler in favor of 0.045". To tack, use a super quick burst aimed mostly at the thick side. With enough amperage and a sufficiently quick arc on-time, you don't have to "wash" anything. The key is a SUPER tight arc length, around 0.5mm.

That is a 1.6mm tungsten, so you can have a frame of reference.
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby J & J Speed Shop » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:37 pm

Oscar wrote:I would ditch the 1/16" filler in favor of 0.045". To tack, use a super quick burst aimed mostly at the thick side. With enough amperage and a sufficiently quick arc on-time, you don't have to "wash" anything. The key is a SUPER tight arc length, around 0.5mm.

That is a 1.6mm tungsten, so you can have a frame of reference.
Image


Thank you very much for the advice. I am going down to the LWS and will see if I can purchase some .045" tungsten to try it out. I imagine I should still stick with the 1/16" filler metal?? Trust me I was trying to hold a very tight arc but I need more seat time to get good because super tight I tend to touch the base metal.
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Re: TIG welding V band flanges on SS Headers TIPS?

Postby weldin mike 27 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:47 pm

Oscar said, swap to .045 Filler rod, IE mig wire. And have a 1.6mm tungsten. Lots of numbers, easy to get confused.
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