Tig welding tips, questions, equipment, applications, instructions, techniques, tig welding machines, troubleshooting tig welding process
TamJeff
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You don't need variable control to weld aluminum. You could use a momentary switch and operate it with anything you can move. You could make a switch out of a wooden clothes pin if you had to. Look up manual pulse welding. The momentary pulsing would allow you to stop and start as much as you needed to without interrupting your passes other than a little fog where you start and stop. Just use higher amps.
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hey_allen
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Another idea for the sensing element could be to use a pneumatic pressure sensor, and a small rubber bellows/balloon on a hose. No chance of being part of the circuit there, even if the driver is wired in.

(I remember the sewing machine that my Mom had when I was a little one having a setup like that for the foot pedal.)
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Greasy fingered tinkerer.
Boomer63
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Hi Mike! Thanks for the post! This is a wild subject, and one that I would never have thought would come up! I intend to keep watching this thread! I teach welding at a college, and I am a kind of an 'all inclusive' guy. Everyone needs a chance. I had an autistic student come through, and he was a good welder. Finding a company that will work with him is a different story. All this guy needs is someone to remind him to stay on task, and remind him several times a day. I am appalled that assholes out there refuse to work with this guy, because he is slightly 'different'.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing what finally comes of this! Carry on, brother!
Gary
UglyBlobs
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Mike:

Please identify the model of your Longevity Tig.

Anyone know the technical specs of a Longevity pedal (Ohm range of the potentiometer)?
Does the pedal have a microswitch to start/stop the arc?

The reason I ask is that while I don't have the technical skills to design a solution, I do play an EWI4000 (electronic wind instrument). Electronic wind instruments use mouth position, bite, breath pressure and velocity to control various elements. A user can produce incredibly complex, precise and nuanced musical articulations with this technology and I believe this may be adapted for Mike's use.

Here is my thought process:
The pedal on my Lincoln Square Wave Tig 175 has a potentiometer that varies from 0-10,800 ohms. My guess is that it is a 10K pot with a 10%+- variance. Some electronic keyboards use a 10K pedal to control volume. I ran across a site that has a breath controller the that plugs into an electronic keyboard and converts breath to volume. The controller has controls to adjust sensitivity. I think this is a close match for the problem we are facing (assuming the Longevity pedal operates similarly), but the cost point may be too high. And, while it may provide the amp control needed, but still doesn't address the arc on/off control.

I posted this issue on a wind instrument forum and will be following up as information emerges.

Dan
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UglyBlobs
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Mike:

A couple follow-up questions.

1) Can you identify any physical limits you might have that would impact a mouth operated option? for example, bite, range of jaw motion, lung function (normal breathing and capacity etc.)?

2) Can you define your preferences for starting/stopping arc and controlling amperage?

For example, some breath controllers use a "bite" sensor (gum pressure) to control one parameter (arc start/stop in this case) and breath velocity to control a second parameter (vary the pedal amp control).

These processes can be separated (Finger button/body operated pressure sensor to initiate arc, and breath pressure/velocity to control amps etc., or any viable combination that works best for you).

If you are not comfortable responding in this forum I can switch to PM.

BTW: For others working on ideas or possible solutions - Keep in mind the need to isolate the user (mouth) from potentially dangerous electrical conditions.

Thanks
Dan
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WWoW
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Hello,

I am overwhelmed at the response of the members. Thank you from the bottom of my black heart!

T o work:

I am using a clothes pin that is attached to the pin jaws. I drilled the knob and made an offset lever to turn it when I bear down on the clothes pin. I got the knob thingies out my tig foot pedal that came with the welder. I am not smart enough to know the electronics of it. I got it to run by trial and much error. The real fun is when it shaped and got caught in my mustache!!! :D
I will post a picture of it if can remember to do it. I blew up my last cell phone when I was in the shop. NG

Everyone have a happy thanksgiving.

WWoW (wild welder on wheels)
UglyBlobs
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When I first ran across this thread I was hopeful a good solution could be found. A number of posters offered suggestions and asked for additional information. I also created a thread over on weldingweb to get some more eyes on the topic:

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?53 ... IG-Amptrol

While waiting for additional input, I started gathering info and exploring options. I believe Mike is using a Longevity 250ex which has pulse, 2T, and 4T options. However, based on his comments, I believe he is asking for a mouth operated solution that replicates the actions of a traditional foot pedal variable amperage control.

Most basic pedals use a micro switch to initiate arc, and a rotary potentiometer to control amperage. A DIY approach might include a low cost micro-switch and potentiometer operated by an RC hobby servo. Since we are introducing electrical/electronic components into the mix, we could also consider digital switches and solid state components like digital potentiometers (DigiPots). However, even though I might be willing to let the blue smoke out of my Lincoln 175 by an experiment gone bad, I can’t risk implementing something that might create issues with someone else’s equipment.
The final solution must work reliably, effectively, and safely on equipment that I am not familiar with and can’t test. So, I slowed down and broadened the scope to identify a more systematic, universal approach. For now, my focus is using, where possible, off-the-shelf commercial products.

At this point, I do not believe a simple mouth-operated mechanical/pneumatic type of device will produce a long-term satisfactory result. I am leaning toward some form of proportional, sensor-based solution. The sensor(s) will integrate with an electrical (likely electronic) circuit to provide the final welder control functions.

If an effective solution emerges that addresses the unique challenges of this application, it should open the door to adapting the circuit to meet the needs of other users with unique physical challenges. A side benefit is that able-bodied welders who do a lot of out-of-position work or operate in difficult environments might find good amperage control alternatives as well.
I have defined the key elements and rationale (as I see them). Some of this info is contained in other posts, but is condensed here for reference. I may be off base on some of the details, so clarifications/corrections are welcomed.

The goal is to provide the user with an effective solution while meeting several key requirements:
1. Meet or exceed the response characteristics of traditional foot pedal/torch mounted amperage controls
2. Adapt to the specific needs and personal preferences of the user
3. Protect the user from potentially hazardous conditions
4. Provide a ruggedized solution to withstand a commercial/production environment
5. Protect the welding equipment from damage/warranty issues caused by a badly engineered solution.

An effective solution should meet these guidelines.
My test machine is a Lincoln 175 Square Wave TIG. This is an older design, transformer-based machine. The max weld amperage is set at the machine.

The welding process is controlled by (from the Lincoln literature):

1) A Lincoln Foot Amptrol (K870) is included with the Square Wave TIG 175 for remote current control while TIG welding.

2) K812 Hand Amptrol ™ may be used in place of the Foot Amptrol if a thumb operated remote control is desired.

3) K814 Arc Start Switch -The Arc Start Switch may be used instead of the Foot Amptrol included with the Square Wave TIG 175. It allows on/off TIG welding at the current set by the Current Control on the control panel. The Arc Start Switch does not provide remote current control.

The Lincoln Foot Amptrol pedal uses a micro-switch to initiate the welding process and a 10K rotary potentiometer (linear taper) to control amperage. The initial down-pedal movement triggers the switch and initiates the welding process at the minimum amperage value (in this case the pot is at 10K ohm). Pressing the pedal further rotates the pot and increases weld amperage (up to the maximum value previously set at the welder). The Hand Amptrol works similarly. Other manufacturers use similar processes, although the Ohm value of the potentiometer can vary from manufacturer-to manufacturer and even between models.

Now, using the form-follows-function approach, the initial focus is to duplicate this functionality with an alternate user input control process (mouth-operated in this case).

Approach I – Mouth Operated Alternative to Basic Foot Pedal/Hand Amperage Control
I started designing a system using RC type hobby servos to control a rotary type Amptrol (foot pedal) and getting ideas from a thread on weldingweb where some guys are creating a DIY wireless pedal:

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?52 ... foot-pedal

However, I ran across a CK Worldwide Linear Amptrak on eBay for $50. The Amptrak uses a linear pot (a finger-controlled North/South slider) to initiate arc and increase/decrease welding amperage. This one is designed for a 14 pin ESAB, and I ordered a 6-pin Amphenol plug so I can adapt it to the Lincoln.

Image

The AmpTrak has a roughly 30 mm range of travel and slides pretty easily. Automating the control will require some type of linear actuator. A number of hobby/RC type linear actuators might work, but I settled on the Firgelli mini-linear actuator line. They are pricey (around $90) but very robust, with numerous models and options to control speed, and precision/granularity to cleanly operate the slider.

I identified the Firgelli P16–P or T16-P actuators with 22:1 drive ratios. These actuators should allow end-to-end travel amperage control of less than 1 second:

Image
Image

Firgelli also offers a Linear Actuator Control Board (LAC). The board allows you to calibrate speed, sensitivity, minimum/maximum travel limits etc. A major feature of the LAC is that it can also be controlled from an external source (Digital: USB, RC Servo, 1 kHz PWM or Analog: 0–3.3 V, 4–20 mA):

Image

This opens the door to numerous input control options.

The "P" version of the actuator also returns a feedback signal and a multi LED indicator strip is available to display the actuator’s current position:

Image

Between the cost of the amperage control ($50 in my case but $250+ retail off-the shelf) and the cost of the Firgelli Linear Actuator, LAC, LED display and ruggedized case ($200), costs start to add up. However, as the operating parameters are better defined, hopefully, a less costly form-factor can be designed.

BTW: For this application, the AmpTrol would not be mounted on the torch. Also, if needed, the linear actuator could be removed and the AmpTrak could be mounted to the torch and used normally.

Unfortunately, when I went to order the actuator, I found out that these models are in pre-production, undergoing quality control testing and are not currently shipping. So, that approach was put on hold.

User Interface (mouth/alternative control)

Implementing some form of mouth control begins with reviewing best practices and products currently available in the assistive/adaptive technology field. Products commonly referred to as “sip and puff” are available to help disabled persons control various devices. One option is the Sip/Puff headset from Origin Instruments. This is a headset that fits securely over the users ears. The system includes replaceable straws and moisture filters.

Image

The user sips or puffs on a tube/straw and these actions are translated into control actions. In many instances, the Sip/Puff headsets operate pneumatically controlled micro switches to trigger and control actions. In our case, the welder needs more than binary on/off functions. The welder needs to be able to have continuous, real-time proportional control of the welding current.

Origin Instruments also markets a device called the Breeze.

Image

The Breeze is a USB device with a pressure sensor. The Breeze emulates the features of a basic USB joystick. Sip/Puff pressure produces two discrete outputs: a button press (left/right) event and an XY (joystick) value proportional to sip/puff breath pressure.

The Breeze would connect to a micro-controller (likely Arduino or Teensy) which then controls the welding process.
So, now I we have to add in the cost ($135 for the Sip/Puff Headset and $160 for the Breeze) plus the Arduino bread boarding/development environment.

BTW: Integrating the Breeze with an Arduino (which controls the welder) opens the door to other input and control options besides the sip/puff headset (finger flex, motion, voice?, etc.)

I recently ran across an open source project “openSip+Puff” that may provide a lower cost alternative to the Breeze. I am following up to get additional information.

Safety and Efficiency
After working through the process, I realized that even if a good mouth/breath/alternative control can be developed, adding tubing or wiring from the helmet to the welder control circuit will introduce additional obstacles and hazards that will get in the operator’s way and interfere with the effectiveness of the solution (especially when user mobility is already compromised). Also, even with careful opto-isolation, I believe the user could still be exposed to electrical/shock hazards (especially on systems with high frequency). As a result, the final solution should include a wireless control option.

Wireless
Some form of hobby RC control or Arduino (xBee?) based platform could be used. However, this adds a range of unknowns (RF interference, security, operating range… etc.) which add to complexity and development costs. Again, while a DIY wireless option might work for some tech-minded users, a better universal option involves adapting a commercially available wireless pedal. Both Miller and Lincoln offer wireless pedals, but at a high price. Linemaster Switch Corporation advertises a wireless pedal option for $395. I recently found that Arc-Zone is now marketing their own wireless pedal (for Miller and Lincoln) at cost point of $449 (hmmm…it sure looks like the Linemaster model). These two caught my eye because of lower cost and because they use a Hall effect sensor instead of a potentiometer.

According to Wikipedia,
“A Hall effect sensor is a transducer that varies its output voltage in response to a magnetic field. Hall effect sensors are used for proximity switching, positioning, speed detection, and current sensing applications. In its simplest form, the sensor operates as an analog transducer, directly returning a voltage”.

In this case, stepping on the pedal doesn’t rotate a pot, it moves a permanent magnet which causes the Hall Effect sensor to vary output voltage.

If the transmitter portion of the wireless pedal could be adapted to work with the Sip Puff Breeze (via an Arduino microcontroller), development would just focus on integrating the Breeze with the Arduino and wireless pedal transmitter circuit. This option appears the best solution since it eliminates the complexity of my prior approach (adapting a torch mount amperage control) and the need to acquire a linear/rotary actuator and LAC control board.

According to the Linemaster tech support, their wireless pedal only works with specific Miller and Lincoln machines. The reason is that the wireless receiver gets power from the welder and not all welders prove appropriate voltage sources. My Lincoln 175 Square Wave TIg is not listed, although the Lincoln Wireless pedal is compatible with the 175. After looking at the Lincoln literature, looks like the Lincoln receiver gets power from a separate 115VAC source.

Linemaster does have an optional Industrial Receiver for various applications and alternate welders (I believe it gets power from a separate 115 VAC source as well). I will be following up to see this unit can be adapted to operate the 175 (for research/testing) and hopefully adapted to operate Mike’s welder.

Side Bar
While the primary goal is providing an alternative weld control option that emulates a current amperage control, a secondary consideration is to see if any additional features can be introduced. For example, the current pedal/hand amperage weld control process is a closely-coupled operation. Initial motion triggers the arc and continued movement controls the amperage. Since arc initiation and amperage control are two distinct operations, what if they were separately controllable functions? Decoupling these functions and opens the door for additional features and enhancements not currently available.
With this in mind, revisit the Sip Puff Breeze. Sipping or puffing produces two distinct events, 1) a joystick button click, and, 2) a proportional value (X or Y like a joystick movement).

With Arduino programming, if the arc initiation function could be handled by the button click event and amperage control (proportional XY), the combination might offer additional options to control the welding process. These independently controlled processes could incorporate the features of the Pedal, torch mounted Amptrol and Arc Start Switch and open the door for features not previously available.

Here are a few examples-

Tack Weld
Currently, using a pedal, the operator sets the maximum desired amperage at the welder, gets into position, then “stomps” the pedal to initiate arc and quickly ramp current up to max output. The operator then quickly “gets off the pedal” to stop the arc.

If the arc initiation function is independent from the amperage control, the operator might have other options to control the tack weld process. For example, if the amperage control could be set to the desired tack amperage BEFORE initiating the arc, the operator could avoid the “stomp-then-get-off-the pedal quickly” tack-weld process entirely.

Slope
Since the Arduino controls the amperage, it might be possible to introduce some form of variably timed up/down slope feature.

Pulse
A user-settable, variable timing circuit could be used to “pulse” the arc switch, or cycle the amperage control (Hi/Low) to achieve a pulsed output.

Argon flow
Another option might include and auxiliary circuit for Argon flow. The 175 has a ½ second pre-flow and 15 second post flow (fixed – nonadjustable). If an additional gas solenoid were added to the equation, a separate user-initiated method could trigger gas flow (independent of arc) to control back purge or extend pre-flow and/or post-flow.
These are presented as food for thought, but probably achievable once the basic system is up and running.

BTW: There is an interesting thread on the Everlast forum where a user added a number of these features to his welder using an Arduino:

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/forum ... th-Arduino

Status
My next steps are:
1) Save up my pennies and buy the Linemaster wireless pedal.
2) Figure out if I can control the Linemaster wireless system with an Arduino
3) Move ahead with the sip/puff user input control.
So, for now, until more info is available (and budgets allow), I am kind of on hold with this project.
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TigWoof
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Just saw this post.

I think we have what you are looking for.

We have recently introduced a new product which we call the "TigButton" brand TIG amperage control.
It is a finger/thumb operated control that is far more intuitive and easier to use than existing hand controls.

It is a small button which clips to your tig torch.

Rather than clipping to the torch handle, this button could be used with another actuation method. We have specifically considered this for use as a bite force sensor. In this use, the TigButton would be covered with a waterproof but flexible covering like silicone and could be held between the teeth. Bite pressure would then control the welder current output.

A light pressure on the button starts the arc.

Increasing the pressure on the button ramps the arc current up seamlessly.

More pressure, more current. Simple as that.

Decreasing pressure on the button ramps the current down seamlessly.

There are essentially no moving parts, which is the key to how this control works so effortlessly.

This control is much easier to use than the sliders and knobs which are out there already. It is much more like writing.
You dont need to think about having to move a finger control, and using the TigButton brand control does not cause your hand to move in a direction you dont want or cause a hand "shake", so you can focus on making that nice weld bead we all love.

The TigButton brand control can be positioned on the torch handle in about any location. This allows you to grip the torch as you need to, to make the weld.

We currently support most modern Miller Tig welders, and Lincoln and some ThermalArc as well. We are adding more welder brands and models as fast as we can.

Do a Google search for "TigButton". The website/s are a work in progress. We are going to add videos and lots more info in the near future.

If I can be of assistance regarding a custom configuration for you, please let me know.

Dave Vogel
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Dave Vogel,

In other circumstances, I might jump at you for making a "commercial" post, but under the circumstances, I have to say I'm interested in what you've come up with and who it might help (including members here).

I notice you were tactful enough to suggest a search, rather than post your link here. Well done.

I'll be looking. I have no standard "disabilities" at all, but I've always thought a mouth-operated control would be a Godsend in some of the screwed up places I have to make my best welds.

Steve S
TigWoof
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Hey Steve

I did try to keep the "tactful" thing in mind... :D I try to avoid commercial posts where they are not welcome. But I did want to provide enough detail to be helpful.

Our very first concept focused on a bite force activated control. It works quite well. If we built it commercially it would also be wireless.

For welders working under difficult conditions as well as people with special requirements. It's nice to be able to offer some potential solutions.

Thanks for the comments. I enjoy the useful info on the site!
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The version I had designed in my mind was going to be called, "Ya gotta hold your mouth right..."

Or perhaps that would have been the slogan... :D

We have members here who are "differently-abled" and could certainly benefit from alternative methods to control the machine. That, as I'm sure you noticed, sparked this topic (and a few others based on mobility and access issues).

Steve S
UglyBlobs
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Here is an example of a Sip and Puff headset used to control a laser welder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8oCrMkaELI
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Thanks
Not all of us are up to date on what’s available
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UglyBlobs
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Well, my project might start moving again.

I kinda stalled out when I decided the mouth-operated Amptrol had to be wireless to protect the operator from the possibility of electrical shock.

I have a Lincoln 175 Square Wave Tig (6-pin pedal input) and have been searching for a Lincoln or Linemaster wireless pedal. The Lincoln wireless pedal runs $550+ and the Linemaster is $395 (but not guaranteed compatible with the 175).

Some guys over at WeldingWeb have been working on a DIY wireless pedal, and I was hoping it might provide a low-cost alternative to the commercial pedals. As of now, it is still a work in progress.

In the interim, I have searched eBay auctions, CL and other sites hoping to find something affordable. Last week, an eBay auction popped up for a Prototype Lincoln Wireless Pedal. Starting bid $30.00! I watched it closely and won ($132.50). Hopefully, this will give me a reliable platform to experiment with.

A guy named Jason Webb started an open-source sip/puff project that looks promising:

https://hackaday.io/project/12959-opensippuff

Hoping this project progresses and creates a viable breath/mouth input control.

Plus, I just picked up a copy of “The Art of Electronics” by Horowitz and Hill. Some serious reading for anyone dabbling with electronics!

http://artofelectronics.net/

May be after the holidays before I get going again (other than rereading chapter 5 over and over till it all starts to sink in)!
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I just read a report on the NPR website the other day about a compound that is made up of silly putty and carbon. There thinking of useing it in medical devices. It reliably changes resistance based on pressure. Might be of interest to you.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
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I have an idea, that might be of some merit... I'd propose a voice activated system. Use an Alexa/Siri style voice system to control your TIG welder. Designed for handicapped welders without access to foot pedal controller. The intent here is to create a complete package so that anybody who wanted to build their own would have a complete guide to hardware and software. The intent is that the handicapped welder would wear a blue tooth headset with microphone under his helmet. That would be linked to a Raspberry Pi Linux computer plugged into power and attached to the welder power supply. The user could use voice commands to fully control the TIG welder power supply.

Voice Commands:
"quick tack", "tack weld", "quick burst"
"start arc", "start welding"
"increase current", "more current", "more juice", 'increase current to XXX amps"
"hold current" , "hold amperage",
"decrease current", "less current", "less juice"
"hold amperage"
"top arc", "stop welding"

The system would provide confirmation of all commands, including listing amperage output (e.g. "92 amps") every x seconds.

The system is based on a Raspberry PI / Amazon Echo / Alexa voice activated controller system.

I think the blue tooth microphone is necessary, as I doubt an Echo mounted microphone, ten feet away would work in a shop from a person wearing a welding helmet, particularly if you have a loud cooling fan or high frequency TIG welding going on.

What really makes this work is they've open sourced the code used to control Alexa, including Voice Triggering. Any software folks out there? I've just now started a project on Github: https://github.com/zipzit/Voice-Operate ... Controller Do check out that link, the readme includes voice command ideas, as well as links to other code repositories.

Zip...
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Poland308 wrote:I just read a report on the NPR website the other day about a compound that is made up of silly putty and carbon. There thinking of useing it in medical devices. It reliably changes resistance based on pressure. Might be of interest to you.
After wrestling with this for awhile, I came to the conclusion that the system needs to be modular. One piece is a rock solid, reliable, wireless transmitter. The second part is the input device. Depending on the user's preference, the input method can be changed. So, any ideas for translating user actions and into welder control are welcome.

WWOW asked about a mouth operated control and this has been my primary focus.

However, before we are done, who knows, if we keep throwing stuff at the wall, some form of novel input control (like silly putty and graphene) might just stick.
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UglyBlobs
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Zipzit wrote:I have an idea, that might be of some merit... I'd propose a voice activated system. Use an Alexa/Siri style voice system to control your TIG welder. Designed for handicapped welders without access to foot pedal controller. The intent here is to create a complete package so that anybody who wanted to build their own would have a complete guide to hardware and software. The intent is that the handicapped welder would wear a blue tooth headset with microphone under his helmet. That would be linked to a Raspberry Pi Linux computer plugged into power and attached to the welder power supply. The user could use voice commands to fully control the TIG welder power supply.
Zip...
A voice activated system is a novel idea.

I am curious as to how the Bluetooth and Alexa type voice system will perform in a high RF environment.

Anyone currently using a Bluetooth headset while welding (TIG and especially using HF)?

Any issues, drop outs, static etc?
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Why does it seem the schematic for the Lincoln K814 arc start switch is a guarded secret? I have been looking all over the web and finally found this forum, maybe someone has one they could pin out for me? I recently have a project that has some odd positions in it and wanted to tack them up first. I have a Lincoln square wave tig 200. I believe through what can be found about this switch it is compatible with the tig I have. Thanks in advance.
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