[G-ManBart]

Now, I don't advocate bad-mouthing a company without cause. But unless I missed it, the OP is still out his money and has no welder.

He did say he should get the replacement unit by the end of this week. That would seem to be a reasonable outcome for a new model just getting into the supply stream.

[BugHunter]

You are correct, Bug, plenty of companies employ people to monitor and post to Social Media. And monitoring forums that are either industry or manufacturer-sponsored (YouTube channels too) is another critical source of vendor feedback. Sure, some companies do use MLA (no such thing as actual AI) to aide in filtering and collating impressions and sentiments. But these are not “bot-driven” algorithms.

What I am most shocked about in this thread is the relatively submissive stance some have taken. Many of the guys posting in here own Miller equipment. And if asked (and they have been many times) why is the Miller so much more expensive than brand X unit with similar specs, bla bla bla. Why would I buy this thing at this ridiculous price? The answer is always, "I use my welder to make money and I MUST have reliability, and if I need service on it, I have to be able to have it right away from a company that stands behind their stuff. , That's why I pay a premium for Blue." Quote/Unquote.

Seriously, is there anyone on this forum who hasn't admitted Miller is THE most expensive because you get what you pay for?

So, Quality + Service = Price. Seems reasonable. But, evidently, Miller has a new policy of dropping the first two, but proudly retaining the third.

[cj737]

What I am most shocked about in this thread is the relatively submissive stance some have taken. Many of the guys posting in here own Miller equipment. And if asked (and they have been many times) why is the Miller so much more expensive than brand X unit with similar specs, bla bla bla. Why would I buy this thing at this ridiculous price? The answer is always, "I use my welder to make money and I MUST have reliability, and if I need service on it, I have to be able to have it right away from a company that stands behind their stuff. , That's why I pay a premium for Blue." Quote/Unquote.

Seriously, is there anyone on this forum who hasn't admitted Miller is THE most expensive because you get what you pay for?

So, Quality + Service = Price. Seems reasonable. But, evidently, Miller has a new policy of dropping the first two, but proudly retaining the third.

"Service" locally, even if it takes up to 10 days to have performed is still probably a helluva lot faster than shipping off, having performed, then returned. Try it right now with Covid and I think the wait will be even longer. FFS, I have been waiting since EARLY JULY for some parts from Germany.

I think if there is a "known" manufacturing defect it would either get resolved in an upcoming build revision, a newer model, or they will stockpile replacement parts. They may be doing the latter, and once again, Covid screwing with everything, is causing delays.

Heck, the Service Center locally may be behind purely due to manpower or limitations of their business.

This does not diminish the OP's frustrations or regrettable experience, but we should all simmer down a tad and contemplate the world as it is presently. Hopefully this crap will subside soon so we can all enjoy prompt delivery and availability once again.

[Louie1961]

The answer is always, "I use my welder to make money and I MUST have reliability, and if I need service on it, I have to be able to have it right away from a company that stands behind their stuff. , That's why I pay a premium for Blue.

I love miller, but I have never bough one new. I am not sure I know all that many hobbyists who have. And it doesn't seem like there are many folks active on this board who make their living welding. The people I know who do make a living welding seem to buy a brand for many reasons, most of which your quote wouldn't cover. Some prefer the arc qualities of one brand over another. Others prefer the features or performance of one brand over another. I am not sure I ever heard anyone ever say I won't buy a Lincoln because Miller has better reliability, service, etc. I have heard many pros say they would only buy local from their LWS because a relationship with your LWS can matter. I have also heard many pros say don't buy mail order.

[BillE.Dee]

Every one of us has gotten a bad taste from one product or another. The bad taste comes from reliability, service and cost. Buy once, cry once...maybe. Darn thing don't work....may be product, may be operator error. Service....may be someone is having one helluva day, maybe someone has no idea what the problem is and won't admit it. It ALL goes with the turf and now our turf is being stricken by some darn illness and from my opinion,,,scare tactics. Oh well, so it goes. Do the best you can. GOD speed.
gramps.

[Spartan]

Sure, some companies do use MLA (no such thing as actual AI) to aide in filtering and collating impressions and sentiments. But these are not “bot-driven” algorithms.

Yes, and apparently AI is the new marketing buzzword for pretty much any dynamic algorithm that does the exact same thing they were doing 20 years ago.

[FootSoldier]

Now, I don't advocate bad-mouthing a company without cause. But unless I missed it, the OP is still out his money and has no welder.

He did say he should get the replacement unit by the end of this week. That would seem to be a reasonable outcome for a new model just getting into the supply stream.

I shipped my DOA welder back to the vendor on Friday last week, prepaid by the vendor. They shipped my replacement 255 to me yesterday, without having received mine at their facility yet. Both shipments are expected to be delivered Thursday this week.

So long as the new welder runs as expected, I have no complaints. Stuff happens. Things go wrong. Good people and good companies find a way to make it right. On my first attempt, I didn't get to the right people. The answers I got were not helpful and cost me 3 days of delay. Who knows, maybe they were just misinformed reps or poorly trained? But I don't think they were trying to be unhelpful though.

On the second attempt to reach out to both Miller and the vendor, both were very helpful and jumped right on making this all better. I appreciate the way those two reps treated me and went to work resolving my situation.

Now, do I think Miller could do better manufacturing-wise, if the information I was given is correct and they know there is a frailty at one point of their assembly process, sure. It should be fixed. But I accept the fact that I am viewing this from micro point of view.

I became a repeat Miller customer based on 42 yrs of reliable service from the only welder I had ever purchased. That welder runs as good today as it did in March 1979. As long as my new welder runs as advertised for whatever welding time I have left, I'll be happy to say color me blue!

[FootSoldier]

The answer is always, "I use my welder to make money and I MUST have reliability, and if I need service on it, I have to be able to have it right away from a company that stands behind their stuff. , That's why I pay a premium for Blue.

I love miller, but I have never bough one new. I am not sure I know all that many hobbyists who have. And it doesn't seem like there are many folks active on this board who make their living welding. The people I know who do make a living welding seem to buy a brand for many reasons, most of which your quote wouldn't cover. Some prefer the arc qualities of one brand over another. Others prefer the features or performance of one brand over another. I am not sure I ever heard anyone ever say I won't buy a Lincoln because Miller has better reliability, service, etc. I have heard many pros say they would only buy local from their LWS because a relationship with your LWS can matter. I have also heard many pros say don't buy mail order.

I am no pro, but I sure agree with buying from somewhere that you can have a relationship with a person or shop. But, in today's world of marketing and supply, we have all become accustomed to being able to buy what we want, when we want it. We're spoiled and that need to speed things up has hurt local businesses. I'm as guilty as anyone.

My first stop to buy a new welder was at my LWS (same one Miller sent me to for service). From my search looking at possible products to buy, I found out that Miller had a price increase coming in a few weeks. So once I decided on the welder I wanted, I headed right down to my favorite LWS.

Where I was told they didn't have one and had no idea when they could get one. Mind you, at that point I knew what I wanted and was willing to order now, lock in the old pricing and wait for delivery. I was hoping for no more than a month or so. But when I was told I had to pay now and that there was no way to give a guesstimate as to how long I'd have to wait, I decided to do some more looking. Then I found online vendors who had stock. So as I said in an earlier post, I nervously placed an order, very nervously.

In the end it looks like everything is going to work out and I'll be very happy at that point. I do appreciate the discussion I have had here. I have learned a lot.

[Oscar]

Let's see them welds!

[FootSoldier]

New welder came and we are getting acquainted.

1/8' mild steel, vertical downhill on pulse.

[FootSoldier]

Millermatic 255 settings

Millermatic 255 1-8 Pulse Vertical (2).jpg (49.63 KiB) Viewed 1861 times

[FootSoldier]

Millermatic 255 1-4 (2).jpg (52.57 KiB) Viewed 1861 times

This one ran in kind of weird. It was almost silent, with a cone shaped arc focusing back to the wire. And what's with all the soot? Is that a byproduct of running 90-10?

Millermatic 255 1-4.jpg (71.27 KiB) Viewed 1861 times

[FootSoldier]

https://www.google.com/search?q=spray+a ... TO6afgBw25

This is very close to what I was seeing and hearing on the two beads above. I know the machine is not capable of spray arc transfer, but that's sure close to what I was seeing.

[Oscar]

https://www.google.com/search?q=spray+a ... TO6afgBw25

This is very close to what I was seeing and hearing on the two beads above. I know the machine is not capable of spray arc transfer, but that's sure close to what I was seeing.

The machine IS capable of spray transfer. "Pulse MIG" is really short-hand for "pulsed spray arc MIG". If it couldn't do spray-arc, it would not be able to do "pulse", if that makes sense.

Welds looking good. The soot is because you likely have a very small diameter nozzle and couple with the fact that pulse MIG needs about 3/4" stickout and the arc cone is much wider than short-circuit transfer, you likely don't have enough shielding gas coverage. Post up a pic of the nozzle you are using, and how much CFH were you using on those beads?

[FootSoldier]

https://www.google.com/search?q=spray+a ... TO6afgBw25

This is very close to what I was seeing and hearing on the two beads above. I know the machine is not capable of spray arc transfer, but that's sure close to what I was seeing.

The machine IS capable of spray transfer. "Pulse MIG" is really short-hand for "pulsed spray arc MIG". If it couldn't do spray-arc, it would not be able to do "pulse", if that makes sense.

Welds looking good. The soot is because you likely have a very small diameter nozzle and couple with the fact that pulse MIG needs about 3/4" stickout and the arc cone is much wider than short-circuit transfer, you likely don't have enough shielding gas coverage. Post up a pic of the nozzle you are using, and how much CFH were you using on those beads?

That's what I don't understand, the machine was not set to run pulse spray when I ran those smooth looking welds, but they sure sounded and looked like spray.

I am running the Miller 250MDX gun, 5/8" bore on the nozzle, with the contact tip recessed 1/8", and 25CFH 90-10.

IMG_1875.JPG (23.04 KiB) Viewed 1859 times

[Oscar]

Oh ok, my bad, I had thought that was also in the pulse program. Yea the voltage is high enough that the transfer method crosses the globular threshold, together with the amperage. It's not quite true axial spray transfer because the droplet size isn't small enough, but none the less it does happen to me as well where it "seems" to go into spray because it turns rather silent and you don't have the typical short-circuit buzzing. Try a 3/4" nozzle with 40-45 CFH and you might see the soot start to decrease a bit. I've gotten that as well.

[Louie1961]

You don't need to be in a pulse program to go into spray arc transfer. You only need a suitable gas mix (which you have) and enough voltage (26.6 should be more than enough for 0.035 wire). So I believe you were just in spray mode (not pulsed spray arc)

[FootSoldier]

You don't need to be in a pulse program to go into spray arc transfer. You only need a suitable gas mix (which you have) and enough voltage (26.6 should be more than enough for 0.035 wire). So I believe you were just in spray mode (not pulsed spray arc)

This is exactly what I did not understand. I hooked up a bottle of C25 to the machine and ran the same weld settings (other than gas selection) and it was in short-circuit arc mode with full bacon frying sound of operation. Go back to C10 gas, then I was in spray arc mode. I've never seen anything like this, other than in videos before.

Spray arc is more like welding with a ray gun! LOL! Now I have to cut and etch a sample to see what the penetration looks like? While running the weld, my impression is that I can't be getting penetration. It flows in so well with the edges so wetted in.

I think what I am learning about the machine is that, if I want to get enough heat to weld 1/4" and above, out of position, then I need to run C25 or C100 gas...or just run the machine in pulse mode program? Would I be wrong in believing that on heavier stuff, out of position welds would have better penetration on pulse mode operation anyway?

[BugHunter]

This is exactly what I did not understand. I hooked up a bottle of C25 to the machine and ran the same weld settings (other than gas selection) and it was in short-circuit arc mode with full bacon frying sound of operation. Go back to C10 gas, then I was in spray arc mode. I've never seen anything like this, other than in videos before.

The gas is what determines if the arc can be sustained without shorting out the wire. Wrong gas, it won't arc, it'll be short circuit. Well, not at any proper settings anyway.

Spray arc is more like welding with a ray gun! LOL! Now I have to cut and etch a sample to see what the penetration looks like? While running the weld, my impression is that I can't be getting penetration. It flows in so well with the edges so wetted in.

I think you'll find it's more, not less penetration.

I think what I am learning about the machine is that, if I want to get enough heat to weld 1/4" and above, out of position, then I need to run C25 or C100 gas...or just run the machine in pulse mode program? Would I be wrong in believing that on heavier stuff, out of position welds would have better penetration on pulse mode operation anyway?

When you run in spray mode, the puddle becomes so fluid that out of positions stuff won't work. The puddle just runs or drips. That's why they do it in pulse, is to create spray mode, but give the puddle time to cool so it's more viscous. In most situations you get more penetration in spray. And yes, to do anything but flat / horizontal, you need to run in pulse mode.

Glad to see you got your welder. I hope it works for you for a long time, trouble free.

[Louie1961]

+1 on what Bug said

I think what I am learning about the machine is that, if I want to get enough heat to weld 1/4" and above, out of position, then I need to run C25 or C100 gas...or just run the machine in pulse mode program? Would I be wrong in believing that on heavier stuff, out of position welds would have better penetration on pulse mode operation anyway?

I think you have multiple options with that machine. With my 252, I could run C25 or C100 and make enough heat to weld up to 1/2 inch according to the door chart. I tried it and it works, but I really don't trust short arc much for thick stuff. I would always default to gas shielded flux core. Its a lot like spray arc welding (but not exactly), runs REALLY hot with awesome penetration, and it runs out of position very well because of the slag. With your machine, you could do short art, pulsed spray arc, gas shielded flux core, or even pulsed metal core wire out of position. You could also do gassless flux core, depending on how much ductility you want in the weld. Gasless is good, but just not quite as good as the gas shielded stuff, in my opinion. The gas shielded stuff is charpy v-notch rated (like a 7018 rod) while the gasless flux core is generally not charpy v-notch rated.

[cj737]

When you run in spray mode, the puddle becomes so fluid that out of positions stuff won't work. The puddle just runs or drips. That's why they do it in pulse, is to create spray mode, but give the puddle time to cool so it's more viscous.

Wouldn't it be "less viscous" with pulse? Making it "stiffer" so to speak, right? I agree with your point, I think you just got the viscosity bit backwards.

[BugHunter]

When you run in spray mode, the puddle becomes so fluid that out of positions stuff won't work. The puddle just runs or drips. That's why they do it in pulse, is to create spray mode, but give the puddle time to cool so it's more viscous.

Wouldn't it be "less viscous" with pulse? Making it "stiffer" so to speak, right? I agree with your point, I think you just got the viscosity bit backwards.

You got me thinking, but no, I think that was right. Higher viscosity ("more viscous") = thicker: Ie, more resistant to flow.

Well, let's forget the crazy terms I'm using and I'll just say in spray, pulse helps keep the puddle from running..

Idk...

[Oscar]

You got me thinking, but no, I think that was right.

Yup, you are right.

[FootSoldier]

I am one happy camper with the new Millermatic 255. It's easily the most capable machine I have ever run. Spray arc is a hotter than heck, zero splatter, blazing hoot to run!

Millermatic 255 1-4 Flat Setting.jpg (47.5 KiB) Viewed 1812 times

Two passes flat on 1/4" mild steel with 30CFH C10. I know it's old hat for most of you, but this is like Disneyland for me!

Millermatic 255 1-4 Flat .jpg (69.23 KiB) Viewed 1812 times

[Oscar]

burned up any gloves yet?