[hpdrifter]

Does "pulse" automatically mean "spray" when speaking of MIG welders???
Reason I ask is I just purchased an inexpensive mig welder that has P/DP.
It's more machine than i need, but I wanted to play. A Yes YWM-211P.
I was hoping it would "spray". It does.... and I don't think there is short arc option.
That is fine. I don't have anything but 75/25 and Argon, but I've got some parts on order to mix argon and the mix(thanks Oscar for the mix thread) to get 92/8.
I did a test run, a quickie, and it sprayed....sporadically, I'm hoping because of the mix; too little Argon.
I didn't try the DP feature. I'm gonna wait on the mixing capabilities.
Ok, ok, maybe not sprayed...globular. The wire never reached the puddle.
Oh, and it was hot!

Thanks.

[hpdrifter]

yeah, George, that's what I was thinking.

[Oscar]

What I've come to learn is no, "pulse" doesn't always definitively mean that it initiates a true sprayed droplet(s). There are some technologies out there where the microprocessor causes really interesting things by ramping the welding current/voltage up & down that don't always initiate spray transfer, but rather the ramps are there to create alternate types of filler-metal deposition. Some of these technologies are

Lincoln's STT (Surface Tension Transfer)




Fronius' CMT (Cold Metal Transfer)



Lorch SpeedPuls, SpeedPuls XT, TwinPuls XT, SpeedArc XT, SpeedUp, SpeedRoot, SpeedCold



Sadly I don't think a $700 yeswelder is anywhere near those levels of sophistication. I would be very surprised if it actually produced an axial-spray droplet transfer and not just a high-low switching of short arc. Pretty much all the testing I've seen done by bigtb1717 on youtube shows they are over-hyped junk that simply don't produce what yeswelder says they will.

[hpdrifter]

I've searched and searched but can't find his review of this machine. In fact, I could only find a couple specific reviews; both pretty positive, but we know how that goes. Could you point it out? Or was his view/review just for Yes welders in general? I did see similarities between this and another "cheaper" brand.

Like I said, it's more than I really need anyway, as long as it holds up(fingers crossed) I guess I'm stuck with it for a while. I had some credits and got it cheaper than advertised. Of course, it's really the same because of "old" expenditures involved to get those credits, but "new" costs were minimal.

I can't justify $2000+ to play. I'm just using around the house for small repairs and so far it seems to do OK. Besides, I like basic black compared to green, yellow, or orange.
Sadly, I'm not anywhere near those levels either.

I guess I don't fit in here, so I'll just leave you folks alone. Thanks for all the info, tho.

[Oscar]

No one said you don't fit here. Don't read that much into it.

The reviews I was talking about was more "in general". I'm just saying don't get your hopes up since pulsing with MIG when trying to actually introduce spray transfer is a very sophisticated process that requires very robust power supplies. So when I see empirical testing that proves that they don't even have hot-start when they say they do (which is a relatively simple feature), it doesn't give a lot of hope for something as sophisticated as true pulsed-spray on a 200A class. Think about it: there are only a handful of manufacturers that can actually figure out to produce a 200A power supply that can do what true pulsed-spray MIG actually requires; even Miller and Lincoln don't offer/know, it's all Euro-brand stuff like Stel/Lorch/Kemppi and I have yet to see anything from a Chinese based MFG that can do it. Even the mighty Fronius does not offer pulsed-spray MIG in the 200A class, 240V 1-ph format. Do you know see why I'm hesitant to believe YesWelder figured it out? Of course I could be completely wrong and maybe they did figure it out, but until I see the actual axial-spray droplets propelled under the arc (which is different from just high-low short circuit pulsing) for myself with my own eyes under a hood, I will remain doubtful. I see you're relatively close to me (even though Texas is a big state). Maybe we can meet up half-way and we can try out each other's welders to see what is what.

[tweake]

i have one and access to another sub 200 amp mig thats pulse and does spray. pretty common in euro machines. the good one is an EWM which has all the bells on it. my one is pretty basic, no pulse adjustments at all, limited to certain material and wire size.

one thing i found with spray is that it depends on wire diameter. thinner it is the lower amps that it requires. charts are around somewhere on it.

generally with pulse its often meaning aluminium. you can pulse but like all pulse welding, it takes higher amps to do it which limits what thickness you can weld.
eg for mine i'm limited to 2mm aluminium with pulse. with no pulse i can go much thicker material.

[Oscar]

Yea I forgot about EWM, they make real nice stuff as well!

[Jack Ryan]

Dip pulse doesn't sound like a thing to me - is it?

There are different implementations but most seem to be spray pulse - some globular pulse. I presume the distinction being the size of the droplet.

On several machines that I've looked at (not used), the peak pulse current was within the normal operating current of the machine when operating non-pulse. That means the average was lower than in non-pulse mode and the process was more for heat control than out of position spray of structural members.

There are a lot of options. I don't know if they all work.

Jack

[Oscar]

Dip pulse doesn't sound like a thing to me - is it?

There are different implementations but most seem to be spray pulse - some globular pulse. I presume the distinction being the size of the droplet.

On several machines that I've looked at (not used), the peak pulse current was within the normal operating current of the machine when operating non-pulse. That means the average was lower than in non-pulse mode and the process was more for heat control than out of position spray of structural members.

There are a lot of options. I don't know if they all work.

Jack

Some pulse-technologies don't create droplets at all (yes filler metal detaches obviously, but not propelled-droplets like axial spray is known to do). They pulse for other purposes, demonstrated in some of those videos I linked.

On my HTP Pro Pulse 200A MIGs, the power supply can provide up to 300A in some programs on the peak-pulse current output. The Pro Pulse 300 can provide up to 600A peak-pulse currents in some programs, as per info from HTP. So in those cases, the power supply temporarily exceeds the standard non-pulse rated output quite a bit [on the momentary peaks].

[Jack Ryan]

Some pulse-technologies don't create droplets at all (yes filler metal detaches obviously, but not propelled-droplets like axial spray is known to do). They pulse for other purposes, demonstrated in some of those videos I linked.

On my HTP Pro Pulse 200A MIGs, the power supply can provide up to 300A in some programs on the peak-pulse current output. The Pro Pulse 300 can provide up to 600A peak-pulse currents in some programs, as per info from HTP. So in those cases, the power supply temporarily exceeds the standard non-pulse rated output quite a bit [on the momentary peaks].

I haven't really caught up with all the more exotic forms of pulse - that's in my in-tray. I was referring to more conventional methods.

I think a lot of the lesser manufacturers are adding (conventional) pulse to current 200A models that don't have the head space to pulse with a high enough current so that the average approaches 200 amps.

One of these days I'll win the time lottery and then I'll have time to investigate newer methods and see if they are supported by theory. Just for my own satisfaction.

Jack

[Jack Ryan]

Oscar,

Have you looked at the TWM AC Pulse MIG? Almost like TIG with a wire feeder (for welding aluminium).

Jack

[Oscar]

Oh yea, it looks pretty cool. Makes for cleaner welds since the switch to DCEN cleans the oxides off the filler wire in much the same way DCEP cleans the oxides off of the base metal. Gotta love microprocessor-controlled inverter welders! It's just too bad these awesome European companies don't have a presence in North America.

[Jack Ryan]

Oh yea, it looks pretty cool. Makes for cleaner welds since the switch to DCEN cleans the oxides off the filler wire in much the same way DCEP cleans the oxides off of the base metal. Gotta love microprocessor-controlled inverter welders! It's just too bad these awesome European companies don't have a presence in North America.

Yes, if they were better represented, I would probably get the chance to try them - too expensive to buy and try.

I did some research too and, as you showed, pulse dip is a thing. STT and RMD prove the point.

Jack

[Rem40xb1]

I have an Everlast 253 DPI and I have used double pulse with .030-.035-and .045 wire and non pulse with the same wires. The .030 wire works very well and is easy to reach the spray transfer mode. I think the yes welder would work very well with .030 wire and the correct gas