mig and flux core tips and techniques, equipment, filler metal
welderkid556
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the gas i was refering to for being pricey is the mixed gas. such as the 90/10, they want around 50$ more for a mixed gas than they would straight co2. stick welding is not an option in any way shape or form with my situation. dont have a big enough generator or a big generator/welder, i dont do enough outdoors welding so it wouldnt be worth the money and also i hate stick welding, it just seems way too out of date and i hate when the rod sticks to the work peice its a pain in the ass. i get more production out of my little 110 mig than i ever got out of a big diesil miller bobcat or trailblazer. i cant spend all day removing a stuck rod from the work peice, i simply do not do stick welding its out of date to me. this flux core wire for outdoor use is just as good as stick if not better and it doesnt leave arc strikes either. i called up lincoln yesterday and asked their technician about the self shielded wire and he told me DO NOT use any gas with it. but if your going to be running gas with your fluxcore wire then why not just get esab dualshield like everyone else???
Alexa
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welderkid556 wrote:the gas i was refering to for being pricey is the mixed gas. such as the 90/10, they want around 50$ more for a mixed gas than they would straight co2. stick welding is not an option in any way shape or form with my situation. dont have a big enough generator or a big generator/welder, i dont do enough outdoors welding so it wouldnt be worth the money and also i hate stick welding, it just seems way too out of date and i hate when the rod sticks to the work peice its a pain in the ass. i get more production out of my little 110 mig than i ever got out of a big diesil miller bobcat or trailblazer. i cant spend all day removing a stuck rod from the work peice, i simply do not do stick welding its out of date to me. this flux core wire for outdoor use is just as good as stick if not better and it doesnt leave arc strikes either. i called up lincoln yesterday and asked their technician about the self shielded wire and he told me DO NOT use any gas with it. but if your going to be running gas with your fluxcore wire then why not just get esab dualshield like everyone else???
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WK556.

Stick welding takes more time to get use to as compared to the wire feed processes. After about eight years on the job a stick welder starts to become good, then continually gets better, until the eyes go and/or the shaking starts.

There are pros and cons for each process, and there are a lot of processes.
http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/142 ... 0_40_1.jpg

Just to mention a few of the 'arc welding' processes:
Stick
Tig - manual feed
Tig - wire feed
Fluxcore without gas
Fluxcore with gas
Mig/Mag
Cored wire

You may want to make a comparison of the fluxcore, fluxcore with gas, mig/mag, and cored wire welding, to help clarify.

Likewise, the difference voltages (110, 220, 380, etc.) of welding machines will have their pros and cons.

Ark strikes are not allowed on many jobs when stick is being used. The arc strike will need to be removed and the repaired spot will often be tested. If the arc strike is bad enough, then the section of pipe is cut out and rewelded. If the welder continues to make arc strikes, then the welder is normally removed.

Tanks for the comment.
Alexa
rake
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Alexa

You forgot Sub-arc!

Back in my shipyard days I was certified in:
Stick
tig
mig (short arc, pulse arc and spray arc. hand held and automatic)
flux core (with and without gas)
Sub-arc (hand held and automatic)

Carbon, stainless, aluminum,inconel, monel, nickel-copper, copper-nickel & copper

Never got a chance to get titanium or magnesium

I was lucky. I got to do structural, pipe and pressure vessels.

Learned to stick weld and oxy/acetylene weld/braze at age 13. Taught by an old Navy welder.
At 18 I took a 3G and 4G stick test with 11018 and was hired on the spot.

If you are a welder you should learn and become proficient in as many processes as possible.
There are far too many tig snobs out there already. There's no one process or method that is
the cure all to end all. In this trade diversity in the key to success.

Look at Jody, he ain't afraid to grab some stick wire and have at it.
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I suppose the bias against stick (SMAW, MMA) welding these days come from the fact there are other processes where the learning curve is shorter to regularly produce a reliable weld.

As rake points out, no one process can replace all the others. I really like to TIG, but for outdoor work, particularly pipe, I prefer stick, except in flat positions where I don't need heavy leather to protect from spatter, because flux-core can simply outproduce stick.

That's not always true, either, though. Give me an old copper-wound Lincoln pipliner and a pouch of 5/32" 7018 rod, and I'll weld circles around innershield smaller than .052".

That said, Welderkid's equipment does what he needs it to do, when he needs it to do it, so why buy more equipment than he needs?

Steve S
Alexa
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Rake.

An amazing experience with various processes and alloys.
How many years in the welding field have you got racked up?
With that experience, have you assisted in developing welding procedures (PQR and WPS)?

Anyways tanks for the input about the SAW.
About ten years back, with a vessel fabricator I was working for at the time, we did some narrow gap SAW on 162 mm wall thickness on 4000 mm diameter shell rings. Those welding operators were amazing. If they even had an itch (a feeling) about a possible lack of fusion or inclusion, they would lift stop, lift out the contact tube, and chip out that part of the pass, then start back up. I learned a lot from those men.

Tanks again.
Alexa
rake
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Alexa

Only a mere 36 years. Guess that just makes me a beginner. ;)
welderkid556
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thank you otto. i have been welding and working with steels since i was pretty young as well, im just now falling into the category of one of the most best welders in this town. i learn from experience, not textbooks or anything of that nature, i learn by doing it and i cant afford to buy a lot more equipment when i only have enough money to slowly slowly upgrade. just bought this everlast tig welder for steel and aluminum, and that was 1,200 dollars, may not sound like much to some people but it took me a couple months to dope up the money to order it. my mig welders were around 600 each, the hobart 140 was new of course and the airco is a dinosoar but it works. i already knew that esab made some aircomatic machines but i looked on my machine and it says product of esab corporation. i wasnt sure if it was true esab product or aircomatic untill few days ago. not sure if esab made any changes to the machines or not but this model seems pretty bullet proof. i looked at the hose that is connected to the flow meter, it goes into the back of the machine through a fair sized hole and it goes into a sort of filtration system then goes into the euro connector for the mig gun. i do not see how any gas could escape or where air could get in.
anyway on the subject of welding processes, i can do stick welding but i honestly get pissed off because of the sticking to the work piece, i worked with a old timer and no matter what, ne said the sticking to the work peice never goes away, ya may have 1 day where it wont do it but u have most days where it does it alot. but he said the only reason why he stick welds is the fact that in his generation mig and fcaw werent even around untill he was already in his 50's and he didnt want to learn anything new untill he saw the newer production lines great looking welds then he decided to learn a new type of process in the fcaw and he loves it, but hes not too much into the spray transfer and mig because hes so use to chipping off slag, some old dogs just dont want to learn many new tricks, but they may let 1 grow on them. he did some shipbuilding also and all they used were stick welders, they were mostly x-ray quality welds or so he said, they may have not always been the prettiest things to look at but they passed the test back in those days. my point is everybody prefers what they like and have their own processes, i may not like stick but if i had to use it i would. but i love my mig and tig. in my opinion preference over rides diversity every time, if you love it, do it, if u hate it then do it anyway if you have to that is of course. but i love the spray transfer and fcaw, thats my thing and if it works i stick to it. mig is kool and is good for thinner and 1/4 inch steel. but i just prefer the look of dualshields smooth looking welds and spray transfers looks and penetration. with stick welding it just doesnt appeal to me because if i try to manipulate the puddle it goes out of control and i like to be in control.
Vince51
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I've always used as close to pure argon as I could get for spray. Any time I get a bottle less than 98 percent argon i get more of a globular transfer. Always run stringers on everything too. If I'm welding out of position with the pulse on I never weave. If I need a wider puddle I increase my voltage. Lower voltage to tighten bead width. Always run a quite arc and steady travel speed. 3/4" stickout. If my arc starts crackling I increase the voltage. You can only spray in the flat and horizontal positions if you don't have pulse.

Prolly elementary to most of you, but someone might benefit. I agree spray makes a nice looking weld. Everything should be stick welded tho haha. Sub arc is something I'm aware of, but never operated. Any time flux comes in a 55 gallon drum it's to much production for my taste.
welderkid556
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i have 90/10 argon co2, 75/25 argon co2 and i have pure argon. i use pure argon for my tig machine, my 90/10 and 75/25 are both on my 220 mig welder, i was curious, if you use 98/2 argon co2 then why dont you just as well run pure argon? i wasnt sure if that would work or not. with that little of co2 what does it actually do to help the weld puddle? ive been playing with my 220 mig and this 90/10 gas and it makes some pretty nice clean beads when i hold the nozzle close, id say maybe 1/2 inch away, if its far enough away that i can see the stickout it starts to crackle and get porosity, if i get the nossle pretty close then it works like a dream even on rusty steel. i dont get it? any ideas bud?
Alexa
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welderkid556 wrote:i have 90/10 argon co2, 75/25 argon co2 and i have pure argon. i use pure argon for my tig machine, my 90/10 and 75/25 are both on my 220 mig welder, i was curious, if you use 98/2 argon co2 then why dont you just as well run pure argon? i wasnt sure if that would work or not. with that little of co2 what does it actually do to help the weld puddle? ive been playing with my 220 mig and this 90/10 gas and it makes some pretty nice clean beads when i hold the nozzle close, id say maybe 1/2 inch away, if its far enough away that i can see the stickout it starts to crackle and get porosity, if i get the nossle pretty close then it works like a dream even on rusty steel. i dont get it? any ideas bud?
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Welderkid556.

Do you mean 98/2 argon co2 or 98/2 argon o2?

In the case of 98/2 argon o2, that little bit of oxygen helps stabilize the arc, slightly increases surface tension and improve wetting to the base metal. Of course, if you use too much oxygen (more than about 5%) then we risk gas inclusions in the weld metal.

A simplified chart for shielding gases.
http://image.thefabricator.com/a/articl ... -chart.jpg

Alexa
welderkid556
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i am confused with the whole idea of people adding oxygen to tank mixtures, doesnt that contaminate welds just as if wind is to blow away the shield? i have never seen any mixture in my area include oxygen. all we can get is argon,co2, helium for welding. but for cutting we can get full tanks of oxygen. i have always been taught that if ANY oxygen gets into the weld it will contaminate the puddle and your done, it causes porosity, snail trails if useing flux core and massive popping and crackleing and none of it sounds good. so please explain what you mean by adding oxygen to a gas cylinder for welding.
thank you for the replies
Alexa
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welderkid556 wrote:i am confused with the whole idea of people adding oxygen to tank mixtures, doesnt that contaminate welds just as if wind is to blow away the shield? i have never seen any mixture in my area include oxygen. all we can get is argon,co2, helium for welding. but for cutting we can get full tanks of oxygen. i have always been taught that if ANY oxygen gets into the weld it will contaminate the puddle and your done, it causes porosity, snail trails if useing flux core and massive popping and crackleing and none of it sounds good. so please explain what you mean by adding oxygen to a gas cylinder for welding. thank you for the replies
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Welderkid556.

I found this paragraph for you from Wikipedia.

"... Oxygen is used in small amounts as an addition to other gases; typically as 2–5% addition to argon. It enhances arc stability and reduces the surface tension of the molten metal, increasing wetting of the solid metal. It is used for spray transfer welding of mild carbon steels, low alloy and stainless steels. Its presence increases the amount of slag. Argon-oxygen (Ar-O2) blends are often being replaced with argon-carbon dioxide ones. Argon-carbon dioxide-oxygen blends are also used. Oxygen causes oxidation of the weld, so it is not suitable for welding aluminium, magnesium, copper, and some exotic metals. Increased oxygen makes the shielding gas oxidize the electrode, which can lead to porosity in the deposit if the electrode does not contain sufficient deoxidizers. Excessive oxygen, especially when used in application for which it is not prescribed, can lead to brittleness in the heat affected zone. Argon-oxygen blends with 1–2% oxygen are used for austenitic stainless steel where argon-CO2 can not be used due to required low content of carbon in the weld; the weld has a tough oxide coating and may require cleaning. ..."

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielding_gas

Alexa
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Rediron881, a member here, regularly TIGs heavy stainless to vacuum-tight standards with a mix containing mostly argon with 2% O2. If I recall, there's a third gas at 3%, but I'm not sure. I'll have to dig up that topic and refresh my memory.

Steve S
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My mistake...

It's 98% AR, 2% HYDROGEN!

Steve S
welderkid556
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correct me if im wrong but isnt hydrogen highly unstable, the same reason why automobile companies wont use hydrogen to power the automobiles instead of gas. by compressing that into a gas cylinder would make the risk even higher if something was to happen inside of a shop? say if something happened to the compressed gas cylinder? im not saying the mixture wouldnt work i would just be concerned about having any form of hydrogen in or anywhere near our shop.
Alexa
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welderkid556 wrote:correct me if im wrong but isnt hydrogen highly unstable, the same reason why automobile companies wont use hydrogen to power the automobiles instead of gas. by compressing that into a gas cylinder would make the risk even higher if something was to happen inside of a shop? say if something happened to the compressed gas cylinder? im not saying the mixture wouldnt work i would just be concerned about having any form of hydrogen in or anywhere near our shop.
=====

Welderkid556.

Found this brief information concerning the safety of hydrogen on page 62 of the following link.
http://www.awssection.org/uploads/longi ... Manual.pdf

"... HYDROGEN DANGER

Hydrogen is a flammable gas. A mixture of hydrogen with oxygen or air in a confined area will explode if ignited by a spark,
flame, or other source of ignition. A hydrogen flame is virtually invisible in well-lighted areas. Hydrogen as a liquid or cold gas may cause severe frostbite to the eyes or skin. Do not touch frosted pipes or valves.

Always use a pressure-reducing regulator when withdrawing gaseous hydrogen from a cylinder or other high-pressure source.
Take every precaution against hydrogen leaks. Escaping hydrogen cannot be detected by sight, smell, or taste. Because of its lightness, it has a tendency to accumulate beneath roofs and in the upper portions of other confined areas.

Do not mix hydrogen with other gases from separate cylinders. Always purchase hydrogen blends ready-mixed. ..."

Alexa
noddybrian
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In the UK hydrogen in cylinders is available & although it's not commonly used yet BOC are unable to provide acetylene here since both bottling plants suffered incidents they are having to buy in acetylene from Air Liquide in France & although their part of the same group they state they are going to phase out acetylene completely & it's suggested that hydrogen will replace it for oxy - fuel cutting / welding. This is not a new idea - a long time ago I'd used hydrogen for cutting underwater - don't think they still do as there is oxy arc / thermic lanse & probably other methods now.

Sorry to side track this post but when oxy / acet was easy to obtain & cheap a company made a thing called H2O-2000 ( or something like it ) basically just a big mains powered HHO generator which was grossly over priced & never caugh on - but with the supply issues & cost of gas now does anyone know if there is anything like it still around - if so has anyone tried it - was it any good - or better yet does anyone know how big the plate stack was in it as it would not be rocket science to make one.
welderkid556
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i thought hydrogen was pretty flammable lol. ive used accetline for cutting but i use propane now and it works just fine for cutting steel, just today i cut a peice of 1/4 inch steel and it cut right through it with no problem, but im sure it would cut through half inch and possibly even 3/4 inch steel. i may have to try it but i know propane seems to get the steel pretty hot before you can blast through the steel. it seems with accetline its a more mellow way to cut steel and doesnt take half as much heat. over in the UK can you get ahold of propane or have they gotten rid of propane aswell as accetline?
noddybrian
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Sure - you can get propane here - alot of people use it - more for heating than cutting - ir's obviously not as hot or concentrated a flame as with acetylene but is adequate for most free hand cutting - never seen a profiler use it though - cuts are never as clean - it's also alot slower getting initial heat into the job & you will use more oxygen per similar amount of cut. acetylene is currently still available but as it's having to be imported the price is awefull. not sure what maximum thickness for hand held cutting is - obvioulsy it's in proportion to nozzle size & cutting pressure, but I routinely cut upto 4" by hand - when cutting any amount over say 1" though I usually swap to a longer torch as the amount of hot metal & general heat from the job gets a bit much - depending on the job I use 12" necked torch for small odd jobs & easier control then I have 24" & 36" torches in regular 90degree 45 degree & a straight one I keep mostly for cuttting sheet piles in situe.
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I once worked at a plastics manufacturer, and used a hydrogen-oxygen torch on a regular basis.

I now work almost exclusively in the LIQUID hydrogen transport industry.

It's safer than you think.

Steve S
welderkid556
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i am slowly upgrading my equipment such as tanks and hoses that are longer and such. i found a torch that looks pretty heavy duty and its made for propane cutting, its made by smith equipment. its a very nice chrome plated torch and regulators. we used smith cutting tools at my last industrial shop i worked at, we used a big propane tank with 3 big oxygen tanks around it and i worked at that shop for around 2 years and we very rarely changed out the big propane tank because it ran out. the entire time i was there i think we changed the propane tank like 3 times. but the big oxygen tanks we changed them almost weekly with all of the cutting we did. we used it more than our accetline torch, we got good enough with propane we even forgot that we had an accetline torch, someone covered it with a welding blanket. i think eventually the foreman exchanged the accetline tank for an argon tank since we never used it. here in my neck of the woods(literly)woods lol, i have never even heard of hydrogen cutting, never knew such a thing existed, is it cleaner than propane and accetline cutting?
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Noddybrian,

I've never done it with with propane, but I've used a pipe beveler with oxy-natural gas. Not as smooth as acetylene, but smooth enough. It was a steel-mill shutdown, and there was natural gas and O2 piped everywhere, so it wasn't economical to use acetylene. It took me a "minute" to get used to starting the torch, but after that, the only issue I had was slower cuts with a little more dross to clean up.

@ welderkid,

I've never cut with H2/02, but I'd expect a very clean fast cut with a narrow heat-affected zone.
The problem with hydrogen is leakage. The only thing in nature smaller than a hydrogen molecule is a helium atom, and it will escape from any system that isn't nearly perfect. Hydrogen is explosive/combustible in air at concentrations as low as 4%

Steve S
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There's an interesting site called weldreality.com I believe on the subject of welding gases for Mig. I can't speak to subject of spray transfer first hand. I just bought my first Mig welder this year and have a total of about 24" of experience. I can add a little bit to the conversation about Hydrogen though.

You can add up to 4% Hydrogen to argon and safely weld with it. It has a LEL of 4% and a HEL of 75% (Lower & Higher Explosive Limit, respectively). This is not something you should do with the gas mixer you have in your weld shop though. All the piping should be socket welded s/s or high pressure s/s compression fittings to try to be 100% leak free.

You would be suprised to know where all Hydrogen is used in industry. Because of the tiny size of it's molecules it can flux out impurities in metals and semiconducters and such. This small size also poses the problem of keeping it in a piping system and remain leak free. It's easy on Steve's end of the spectrum because @ -424F there is not alot of space left in between the grain struture in a s/s pipe for it to escape. Pump it up to 2700 lbs @ atm, and you find leaks everywhere.

Len
Now go melt something.
Instagram @lenny_gforce

Len
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Len,

You'd be stunned at what we found when rehabbing two "extreme-pressure" pumpers, modified to pump gas at 5000+ PSI to fill CG tubes.

The modifier was supposedly held to x-ray, at 10% random. After the first two turds we found, we called in a radiography crew, and 95% of the high-pressure piping (sch. 160) FAILED HORRIBLY. We cut out every inch and reworked it. It was stunning that none of those "welds" failed.... Most were flat-butted pipe with a crown weld.

The films went to HQ. Those folk are not likely to be doing modifications like this for this company any time soon.

Steve S
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I'm interested in trying out spray transfer migging. I have an older 315amp Esab MIG/MAG and using 100% CO2 atm. I guess the way to start is to up the current, lower the wire feed and try to keep a tight arc to up the voltage? Will I have any luck with 100% CO2? I also have 100% argon for my tig? I guess that's no good either.

Thanks for any tips!!
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