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More vertical up flux(1/16)

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More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Mike2076 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:53 pm

I'm new to welding, trying to learn anyway, and have been trying to practice vertical uphill welding using Ultracore HD-M 1/16 flux-cored wire with 75/25 gas. Using the Lincoln recommended settings for the wire, the weld ends up drooping or simply melting off and causing some nice fireworks on my table. (As another thread by another user described.)
Problem is, the machines are all so old and the information is worn off so there's no way of telling what any of them are aside from being Millers. The displays for amps and such are also broken, so you basically have to set the voltage and wire speed and hope the machines are calibrated properly. :?

I'm running around 20 wire, 23 volts(assuming the dials are atleast accurate on the provided machine :roll: ) and pointing the gun slightly upwards as described in the 3g plate test video(which is for .45 wire, but I assume that's at least common in both).

If the weld is still sagging and melting off, is that an issue with the mentioned settings? Too much heat or wire?
And what is the best method for actually laying the weld? I was basically trying to follow the video, using slight weaves and stopping on the sides for half a second, but again that's for .45 flux and from what I've read that's a bit more forgiving and easy to work with.

As I mentioned in my new user post, the guys I work with are less than helpful so I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction. My apologies for not being able to provide very much information.


Video I was referring to is "3G Vertical Flux Core Welding Test – Vertical Uphill Weld Test"
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Farmwelding » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:01 am

If you're welds is sagging maybe try to go across the middle a little faster. Do you have any pictures to show us.
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby PeteM » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:11 am

Try clipping your wire off at the tip, then run it out for 6 seconds (not making a weld). Clip it off at the tip again and measure it. Multiply the length by 10 and that will give you the wire speed in inches per minute, or IPM.

For constant voltage, you only set the voltage and wire feed speed. The machine takes care of the current. Once you get the feed rate set and voltage dialed in, it's just a matter of practice. A good thing to keep in mind is to keep the push angle to a minimum- don't tip your hand and reach with the electrode, lift your whole wrist.

Fwiw- sorry to hear you have to work with people like that. They're usually just dumb and don't know how to answer any questions. I've caught flack for being one of those "school boy" welders but squash it pretty quickly with performance.
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Mike2076 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:44 am

I haven't got any pictures, if I remember I'll do that once I'm back in the shop tomorrow, as well as measure for the wire speed.

Is it easier to practice on just a flat plate, or a joint of some kind? I've tried both, and had more issue when I was just running beads on a flat piece of plate than when I put 2 together and welded in the joint.
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby PeteM » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Both have their value depending on where you're at skill wise. Practicing smooth consistent beads on a flat piece is fine if that is what you need to improve. Stopping and starting smoothly (good tie ins), laying one into the next, etc. all help build the skill needed to make good passable welds. Once you're good at that most places (schools) will have you do fillets for multi passes, all positions, then on to beveled plates for stringers and weaving.

Its definitely a walk before you run thing.
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Farmwelding » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Now I am a big believer in using machines as long as you can and that the older machine, generally the more bulletproof, but if you can't even read the setting son your machine, something is wrong. Is it just this machine or is it every machine at the school? I can't beleive they can get away with such worn machines. I mean that is one of the most important things right-settings? Best of luck!
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Paul Y » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:44 pm

I just fought this fight and the main things I learned for 1/16 dual shield are: thin plate weaves make it worse, stick out is critical if you get too short it's instant loss of puddle, quinch after every bead if it's a practice plate. I'm not an expert but this what my feeble brain picked up.
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby PeteM » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:45 pm

Farmwelding wrote:Now I am a big believer in using machines as long as you can and that the older machine, generally the more bulletproof, but if you can't even read the setting son your machine, something is wrong. Is it just this machine or is it every machine at the school? I can't beleive they can get away with such worn machines. I mean that is one of the most important things right-settings? Best of luck!


You'd be surprised what goes on in heavy industry then. Suitcases that have their display bashed in, old machines that have been hit by cranes with a couple of notches scratched in by the dial. Knicked up leads that end up blowing up while you're using them (taped up all over the place). We had to do a practice at school where the instructor taped over the read out and we had to dial it in "blind" for a week, because you have to know how.
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Mike2076 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:29 pm

Farmwelding wrote:Now I am a big believer in using machines as long as you can and that the older machine, generally the more bulletproof, but if you can't even read the setting son your machine, something is wrong. Is it just this machine or is it every machine at the school? I can't beleive they can get away with such worn machines. I mean that is one of the most important things right-settings? Best of luck!


We have multiple shops, and in most of them I've been through the machines are old and have some issues as I mentioned. Once in a while the maintenance guys will go through and fix them, replace displays and such but mostly the company wants to save money and if the machines work, they call it fine. The only shop with newer machines is where the pipe welders work and tig is used frequently. Basically the experienced and higher paid guys get the good equipment which is understandable. 8-)

And yes, they also like putting electrical tape on leads. Pretty embarrassing to admit working in a place with such poor management honestly, but that's above my head. :|
It's not such an issue because pretty much everything uses the same 2 wires, so everyone gets used to what the machines need to be at to run properly. This arrow here for the volts, this arrow there for the wire, and you're good to go. :roll:
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Re: More vertical up flux(1/16)

Postby Mike2076 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:33 pm

Messed with the settings some more, and it's not drooping or melting off now. Wire down to 180.
Pictures after 3 passes, then 5.

Looks pretty lumpy still but at least it's holding.
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