[mike boyer]

Ok Gang....lit up the tig torch with my new gas lens(pyrex kit fromHTP) on my Everlast 160sth...120 amps..Doing a open root weld on 3/8 plate.. 22.5 angles 45degree included.. .060 gap..(knife edge),,I didn't go an inch or two before this happened....On the pyrex cup you can see what looks like the top of the bevel has transfered heat and made the two ..(indentions,melted places).... & the collets have ..spiraled..corkscrewed in a counter clockwise direction.."I can only "summize" this was caused by the "backcap being tightened in a "clockwise" direction...Once the internals started heating up & the collet being locked in place..It allowed the rear of the collet to move in the direction of the tourqe from the back cap...My question IS...WHY DID IT GET THIS HOT after just an inch or two at most??????? Arizona...Sup...Otto...A pro opinion ?????

[Braehill]

What polarity is your machine set on?

Len

[Superiorwelding]

Mike,
First check and see if you are hooked up DCEP and not DCEN. DCEP will heat your torch up fast. You need to be hooked up to DCEN. Second I have these pyrex cups and while they are nice, they do not last very well at very high heat/walking the cup. My local welding supply asked me to give these a shot walking to cup so they could recommend them to a customer of theirs. I destroyed two of them. One from dropping and the other just like yours. As a side note, I have switched to CK Worldwide's collets. They hold up a lot better, are brass, and hold the tungsten very well.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

If you were on DCEP, You would know it!!!!!!!!!

[Braehill]

+1 on the CK wedge collets, the can't twist because they're no slots in them.

Len

[mike boyer]

Jonathan....I'm green,but know reverse polarity is stick..(electrode positive)..Tig is (electrode negative)...I wasn't walking the cup..was close to work..with tungten extended .250-.312 outa the cup (1/8"dia electrode in this case) probably cup was .090-.125 from plate..My first impression was...this shit is junk....But with no prior exp...I figured..pyrex is pyrex...I cheapd out & (I thought,serves you right cheap bitch)..shoulda bought quality insteada price...The cork screwing of the collets..Whata you think brother...Give me your opinion..was I close..torque did that ,right..once things got outa hand heat wise with this crap brass??? they succumed to twist...NO????..Oh yea..Forgot this..I'm LpM on my regulator..Did the conversion from CFH..It said 7 was the number..I bumped it up & didn't make a difference ..& was using 1/8 er70s6 filler.....This tig...Is cool as hell...I like this..just gota get dialed in...Cheap torch.cheap consumibles..I'm obviously gona have to get set up right....But I definatly see this is what I like...

[Arizona SA200]

Those pyrex cups cant take a whole lot of heat and walking the cup with them is a no no. Air cooled torch right? Does the handle get really hot? The heat and the discoloration of the collets make me think there may be a problem in the torch.???

[Superiorwelding]

Mike,
No offences on polarity. My Pyrex cups are actual CK. You might be on to something saying these may be a cheaper version, but don't know for sure.
You are correct on the twisted collets. Once you heated them up hot, they can very easily twist. Like Len said the CK wedge collets will not do this. I would add some to your collection when you get the chance.
If your polarity is correct than I will assume that you were just to hot/to close to your work piece. Don't set your Pyrex cups on you work piece and you should be fine.
-Jonathan

[mike boyer]

You nailed it AZ...wasn't walkin tho....The pics i posted in the stick section..couple a them were the pics this happened in...Torch was warmin up fast...Got some alumina gas lenses also....Didn't have a problem with them....Sup says it's "less than top quality"..That was my first impression...BUT WTF do i know...You guys been babyn me thru this the whole time...My forte is putin metal on the floor..Not putin it back on....Thats you boys expertise...LMAO..I can tell from listenin when a guy knows his sh**...So far ...I'm trustin the 3 amigo's..LMAO AZ.SUP.OTTO. ..Hell guys..I'm new at this...

[RichardH]

Mike,

That scorching on the Pyrex cup - was that the torch end or the workpiece end?

[Superiorwelding]

You know something just dawned on me...CK provides these pyrex cups for HTP (I believe), so they would be the same thing. Oh well still does not change the fact that they cant take the heat.
-Jonathan

[Arizona SA200]

I'm sure some day I'll have some questions for you. Keep up that good work man. Practice practice practice.

[Arizona SA200]

BTW you being this "new" to this, I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one impressed by you current skills.

[mike boyer]

AZ...That probly ain't never gona happen...Lmao...EXP rules bro...I know this from machining....This is new to me..You boys..SUP.. AZ..OTTO..You guys been tiltin tit to a greenie from day one.You got no idea how much I appreciate it...An No offence taken on the polarity thing..A lots lost in this textn/typin format...What I need is to be workin under you REAL weldors..Watchin,learnin & then askn why...Guys...you all done me right anwserin my dumb a** questions..An for that I THANK YOU

[Arizona SA200]

The only true dumb ass question is the one that isn't asked. I am glad that we can help you.

[Superiorwelding]

The only true dumb ass question is the one that isn't asked. I am glad that we can help you.

I second that. I ask my fair share of dumb questions as well. We will provide any help necessary.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

Hey its all good....
We are not WW, and don't jump on peoples butts when they ask a simple question.
You shouldn't be welding, trolls be trolling, he evidently doesn't know what he's talking about, I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope it isn't welding. And many more!!!
We like to help people get started off on the right foot, and nobody likes it when their told things that deter them from finding out there question.
Anyway....

We're back on topic.
I have found that over tightening back caps can distort collets.

I had a Everlast PowerArc 160sth for about 1year, and it had a "cheap" torch on it.
Cables get really hot after about 3min at 135 amps, torch gets hot, and its just a bad set-up.
I like HTP parts(good prices and parts are comparable to CK)
But regular parts from china work ok.
Keep us informed, pics always help.
Good luck and keep up the practicing.
~John

BTW, does anyone know if CK wedge collets fit regular collet bodies? Or just CK's "gas saver bodies?

[AKweldshop]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyrex-Cup-Kit-f ... 27a97d5ced

Is this what you bought?

[AKweldshop]

I'm sure I'm gonna take some heat on this, but these parts are a pretty good value, work good for practicing.
I used them for a while, in home training, they do the job.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/62pcs-TIG-Weldi ... 3cc7d54f86

For open root/pipe/plate practicing, these parts are cheap, and hold up to walking the cup and boiling 17's....

[mike boyer]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyrex-Cup-Kit-f ... 27a97d5ced

Is this what you bought?

Yepr Thats the 1..And as far as takin heat for NOT BUYIN AMERICAN....The "powers that be" made it almost impossibe not to...I'm not the guy who sent manufacturing overseas..I understand the profit ratio thing..Really..I get it..But you don't throw an entire society of blue collar guys under the bus so you get 500 percent profit insteada 50-60......Ok..I'm cool..I'm calmin down..Rant over!!! lol

[mike boyer]

Ok Guys...Excuse the scattered responces & the missed replies to richard & len...I was half in the bag last night..lmao..Let me regroup ...Soooo here goes..Richard...Yes that was the buisness end of torch....Len polarity was DCEN...Wasn't walkin the cup..Electrode (125)was extended bout 250-312...Bout 10 dgr torch angle @ 120amps..Which I didn't think was realy hot enough to melt pyrex???..Switched out to the alumina stubby GAS I ALSO bought...HAHAHAHA..Yes I'm a Tool WH**E... I admit it...I's my addiction...Mama incourages me..Says it's better than chasin me outa bars..Or lookin at girly mags..(she calls my tool catalogs my porno collection) LMAO... I gota agree with SUP or AZ or maybe AK said it...My guts tellin me this little torch ain't the highest quality on the shelf...Plus bein air cooled..yada yada yada.. I've seen weldors in the shops I've worked at use these & never saw a smoked one...Saw Jody usin um...I did have to "CRANK" the end cap to get it to lock a couple times..So my bet is ..Somethin's not quite right inside this torch...When I saw J demo the CK twist lock...I could instantly see the benefit..I WANT ONE..haha

[AFSATCOM]

I've got a CK flex-loc air cooled 130 amp torch with the gas lense, alumina cup and wedge collets. I've also got a LD gas saver kit with the pyrex cup just for stainless. I routinely max the torch out. Gets pretty damn hot too. Zero discoloration on the collet. Been wanting to get the 3 series head to get a few more amps.

[Braehill]

To the question of whether the wedge collets work in other brands of pilots, yes. They are the same length, just a different shape.

To the 3 series head on a flex-loc, it doesn't keep the handle from getting hot and as much as I love my flex-loc torches, they get very hot. Un-fold a Tig Finger and slide it over the handle when you have to use it on the heavy stuff, puts a little distance between you and the handle. Works great. I was scratch starting some sched. 80 pipe the other day and I had mine (3 Series) so hot it was melting the infamous little knob from the inside out, now that's hot.

Ck's torches as I believe are made more like the super-cool versions of Weldcraft which have a larger cooling passage around the head and offer a little better cooling than their cheaper counterparts. But I've never cut one apart to see if this is actually the case. If you had one of each and the flow meter that goes right on the cup you could see if it did indeed have more flow cooling the CK by leaving your flow meter set the same and comparing the output, just a thought.

All gas cooled torches will get hot if they're run at their max for long periods, that's why it's called their max rating. That being said, we want them to be flexable and light and want them to be able to weld 1" plate in a single pass and that's just not possible with one torch. My old Union Carbide (circa 1978, yes it's older than half our membership) 17 series is as stiff as a honeymoon dick will weld all day at 200 amps. but it needs to be boom mounted and has a 3' bend radius, not fun to use.

Everything has it's limits and it looks like Mike has exceeded his consumables limits here.

Len

[AFSATCOM]

I'm not aware of any ratings on cunsumables but 120 really isn't that much. The most heat in any circuit is at the point of greatest resistance. So if the torch head is overheating below it's rating I would assume there is a bad connection in there somewhere. One possibility would be improperly sized consumables. There could also be poorly bonded components in the torch as well. My 2 cents

[Braehill]

Nick, you made me think of something when you brought up the resistance. If the cheaper consumables are made of a poor grade of copper then maybe their resistance is elevated and causing them to deteriorate. This could easily be checked with a meter if you had some of each of them (which I don't).

Len